Wofford Coaching Search

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Re: Wofford Coaching Search

Postby boulder3m on Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:31 pm

I have watched a couple of private universities in my region expand over the past number of years-High Point and Elon. I have no idea why they expanded they way they have, and it seems that most I talk to are suspicious of both schools and their academic credentials. Yes, they seem to have made a move to get students from the populated northern cities. Has it made the schools more prestigious or less? Does a graduate degree from either school hold academic weight? I think all of those questions are valid. I do think that most employers if given the opportunity to talk freely and candidly will tell you that most college graduates from many schools come to them with minimal abilities to deal with the workplace they encounter. We would all like to believe that a Wofford graduate would not be in that group.
As for graduate programs, I have wondered for awhile why Wofford doesn't pursue medical, legal and business possiblities. If one were to look at a Google Map of Wofford it is striking that the campus virtually adjoins the hospital. It would seem a natural to move in that direction. The legal and business schools would be natural fits as well. As with our undergraduate programs, I would prefer that we pick a limited number of schools and be the best we can be with a limited number of students.
As for land, Wofford has a lot of land if we no longer need fields for the Panthers. We also have the ability to grow further, if perhaps in different locations. One of the best moves the College ever made was in the mid to late 80's when they purchased everything they could on the north and east sides of the campus.
I have watched with interest as Wake Forest grows and expands here in Winston-Salem. Recently they moved the medical school totally away from the hospital into the downtown area. Work is done on mannequins electronically made for medical study. The students can go to the hospital for practical work, but the school is off campus. WFU has built classroom buildings in old warehouses downtown and also dorms. It works, and it melds the College/University into the city. They have just built new buildings on campus for their law school and business schools. Grad students can live off campus.
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Re: Wofford Coaching Search

Postby boulder3m on Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:35 pm

I see the problem with attracting fans to colleges here in NC. Western, Elon, UNCC and the other small colleges in the football world have a hard time getting fans to the games. Appie and ECU are somewhat isolated, and they draw well. However, as I have said before, if you look at how many they draw as a percentage of their students it is questionable. What else is there to do in Boone and Greenville, NC?
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Re: Wofford Coaching Search

Postby Ruckus on Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:33 pm

As a 1992 Wake Forest Law School grad, I can tell you the value of the education I received in old Carswell Hall greatly exceeded its beauty and sophistication. The year after I matriculated the new business and law school building was built. The point being that facilities are great but the value of an education is much more than the physical plant in which it is imparted.
Both App and ECU have the advantage of being the biggest thing in their geographical regions in addition to being very large public universities with large student populations.
BTW - I really like the direction of this discussion. In essence what we are discussing is who are we as a campus community? What is Wofford? What do we want Wofford to be? Great questions worth serious thought and discussion.
I should point out that my answer to the Wofford Way was answered in the actual objective sense IMO, not what I necessarily want it to be or think it should be.
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Re: Wofford Coaching Search

Postby lawdog on Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:52 pm

boulder3m wrote:I have watched a couple of private universities in my region expand over the past number of years-High Point and Elon. I have no idea why they expanded they way they have, and it seems that most I talk to are suspicious of both schools and their academic credentials. Yes, they seem to have made a move to get students from the populated northern cities. Has it made the schools more prestigious or less? Does a graduate degree from either school hold academic weight? I think all of those questions are valid. I do think that most employers if given the opportunity to talk freely and candidly will tell you that most college graduates from many schools come to them with minimal abilities to deal with the workplace they encounter. We would all like to believe that a Wofford graduate would not be in that group.
As for graduate programs, I have wondered for awhile why Wofford doesn't pursue medical, legal and business possiblities. If one were to look at a Google Map of Wofford it is striking that the campus virtually adjoins the hospital. It would seem a natural to move in that direction. The legal and business schools would be natural fits as well. As with our undergraduate programs, I would prefer that we pick a limited number of schools and be the best we can be with a limited number of students.
As for land, Wofford has a lot of land if we no longer need fields for the Panthers. We also have the ability to grow further, if perhaps in different locations. One of the best moves the College ever made was in the mid to late 80's when they purchased everything they could on the north and east sides of the campus.
I have watched with interest as Wake Forest grows and expands here in Winston-Salem. Recently they moved the medical school totally away from the hospital into the downtown area. Work is done on mannequins electronically made for medical study. The students can go to the hospital for practical work, but the school is off campus. WFU has built classroom buildings in old warehouses downtown and also dorms. It works, and it melds the College/University into the city. They have just built new buildings on campus for their law school and business schools. Grad students can live off campus.


Elon, High Point, and Campbell have been adding graduate programs left and right, and my clear impression is that most are spread too thin and watered down, and not highly regarded, and that they are overreaching and trying to be everything to everyone. I have long thought, however, that it might be a very good idea for Wofford to add perhaps just one graduate degree, and that degree would be in something one might call "organizational management". Two reasons: first, it would address business at the managerial level, which would give a grad with any background, including liberal arts, a chance to focus on leadership and all that it entails, for the full array of organizations ... sole proprietorships, entrepreneurs, sports, international, partnerships, corporations profit and non-profit. It would give a grad a leg up at this higher level. Also, the leadership emphasis would serve a graduate well in all walks of life. Leaders of all types and styles could be brought in to share skills and experience, and helpful internships and connections could be developed, e.g., Chandler, DeBerry, Morrison, Richardson, Murphy. As the only graduate program, we could focus and immerse students, and do it extremely well, as we now do for example in pre-med and pre-law. Second, such a graduate degree opportunity would give athletes who redshirt a place to seek a further degree while completing eligibility. A year or 18 months would be the right length. We all know that most details of what is needed to perform a job is learned by diligent effort on the job itself. This graduate program might suitably be named for Jerry Richardson.

On the other hand, there is a lot to be said for focusing on being an outstanding undergraduate institution, which we now are, along with the likes of Davidson, Amherst, and a few more.
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Re: Wofford Coaching Search

Postby walliver on Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:19 am

Davidson COLLEGE is much more respected than North Greenville UNIVERSITY - as well as Elon, Campbell, Gardner-Webb, Southern Wesleyan and all the other UNIVERSITIES awarding graduate degrees. Despite its name, Furman awards very few graduate degrees, and despite having met many FU grads, I don't know of any graduate degree grads other than band directors.

We aren't going to open a medical school with VCOM around the corner, and to be blunt, the standards for awarding the MD degree require a research institution, something we are not (which is why schools such as VCOM offer the DO degree). There are too many law schools as it is. We could fire up the presses and print out MBA's and such, but there is nothing gained by offering graduate degrees unless we can do so at the highest levels.

I would much rather follow the Davidson model (except with real football) than become another Elon or High Point.
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Re: Wofford Coaching Search

Postby Eyes of Old Main on Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:50 am

walliver wrote:I would much rather follow the Davidson model (except with real football) than become another Elon or High Point.


Dead on point.

Example, my son is a senior this year and deciding on a college. Mid process he changed his intended major. Wofford, Elon, High Point and others of similar size and direction were on the initial list, but the new major scrapped all of them because they don't offer the program he wants. A new list was developed and vetted. At this point, applications are out, some acceptances are in as well as a nice scholarship offer to his second choice. He has applied to five schools; four offer the program he wants and one that doesn't. The one that doesn't is Wofford. He has toured about a dozen schools through this process and to this day, the one he felt the most comfortable with is Wofford. Countless times he has commented that he wished he could find a hybrid of Wofford's campus and community and his first choice's program which is a testament to the special place that Wofford is.

Maybe that's because he has grown up hearing about Wofford at home, but honestly, aside from some football games and a basketball game or two, he has very little experience with the College except what he's learned through the admissions process. He may choose not to attend Wofford due to the program offering, but the fact that he can not shake Wofford as an option says a lot about both the comfort within it's own skin that Wofford has and the fact that this comfort level is something that people can pick up on even if they aren't looking for it.

High Point has incredible facilities. It's almost an embarrassment of riches, but it is over the top, borderline contrived and comes off like one big put on by an administration that functions like a cult of personality for the president. At first look, my son was hooked, but the more he's thought about it, researched it and thought about it High Point has almost become a punchline for being over the top. I'm proud that he is able to draw the distinction and glad that it is off our list. Fast growth is one thing, but what they are doing seems dangerously fast and very prone to crashing once the money spigot is turned off.

I am glad that Wofford is what it is and seems to work to stay true to that sense of self. Even as Wofford evolves and changes from what it was like during my time there, I always know where I am when I am back on campus. I'm not sure that alums of a lot of other schools can feel the same way.

Of the many things I learned at Wofford, one of the most helpful has been the concept of beginning with the end in mind. That has served me well both personally and professionally and I hope that that is exactly what is going on with our coaching search and long range planning for the College.
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Re: Wofford Coaching Search

Postby wocomouth on Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:11 am

Want more people in the stands? Cut ticket prices.

The average person in Spartanburg isnt going to pay $27 for a Wofford football game. Nor will a family of four pay $74.....JUST FOR TICKETS!!!

I know first hand (people who work there have told me) that there are Wofford professors and staff members that don't attend games bc of the cost of the extra tickets they have to buy to bring members of their families (they get 2 comp tickets).

This has absolutely nothing to do with the head coach, but has a ton to do with the view that Wofford is just a school for those with money.
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Re: Wofford Coaching Search

Postby boulder3m on Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:06 am

"
High Point has incredible facilities. It's almost an embarrassment of riches, but it is over the top, borderline contrived and comes off like one big put on by an administration that functions like a cult of personality for the president. At first look, my son was hooked, but the more he's thought about it, researched it and thought about it High Point has almost become a punchline for being over the top. I'm proud that he is able to draw the distinction and glad that it is off our list. Fast growth is one thing, but what they are doing seems dangerously fast and very prone to crashing once the money spigot is turned off.


Wow- That is a great description of what is a prevailing feeling in the area about High Point.
As for Wofford, speaking from the experience of a daughter and son-in-law with Wofford degrees, the education from our college is as valuable as any directed degree. When my son-in-law went to the MBA program at USC he found that the Wofford grads were FAR ahead of others. As he found his way toward his life work he went throud several fields and ended up in a field he never even knew existed, that was light years away from his degrees. That is what is possible with a true liberal arts school. You are EDUCATED, not just trained in one field of endeavor. Most kids have no idea what they really want to do in life, and many end up far from what they thought. If you want to learn a particular skill, go to a trade school. If you want to become a leader, go to a liberal arts program that teaches you to think, communicate, reason and lead. Personally I hope Wofford never gets away from that core principle. Also, living on campus, getting to know your fellow students, faculty and administration, is vital to the process. The monster universities that offer nothing but classrooms and have students who do nothing but commute to and from the buildings may as well offer online classes and save the cost of bricks and mortar. It is like the old story of commitment or involvement. You know the old saying about breakfast-the chicken was involved while the pig was committed! At Wofford you are committed, while at many other large schools you are involved.
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Re: Wofford Coaching Search

Postby dude on Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:30 am

Yes – ticket prices. I figure that Wofford needs the money generated from ticket revenue. And does the conference have anything to do with setting prices? Not sure.
But if you’re closing in on $100 for a family to go to a game, it’s out of hand. And clearly a price that a lot of people can’t afford.

What if Wofford games could be the best deal in town, known in the community as a bargain for the whole family, etc.?
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Re: Wofford Coaching Search

Postby boulder3m on Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:32 am

I want to add one other thing to this conversation that is particularly on my mind this morning. Last night the final episode of "The Long Road Home" on Nat Geo channel ended. It was the story of a battalion of the First Cavalry Division that was ambushed in the first week they were in Iraq the year after the Iraq War. The story is tragic, heroic and extremely moving.
The reason for mentioning this in this context is that one of the featured characters in the show is Army Capt. Troy Denomy, who is a 1996 Wofford graduate who played on the soccer team. Troy was the company commander of a platoon that was trapped in an ambush in Sadr City on April 4, 2004-the subject of the TV series.
Troy was just promoted to Col. in the last few weeks, and is stationed in DC working on new weapon systems, I believe. The point is this-he has a Wofford degree which he credits in great part for his general training. I doubt he ever believed that a little over 20 years out of Wofford he would be at the Pentagon working with major contractors and the top generals of the Army; having been the subject of a major TV series. Wofford degrees prepare you to lead...and to succeed.

Watch the series when it comes back. It is worth every tear you shed.
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Re: Wofford Coaching Search

Postby youngterrier on Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:16 am

A few years ago there was speculation that converse and Wofford would merge, I was on campus at the time and I the hearsay was that the reason we didn't is because we didn't want to become an ambiguous university like Gardner Webb, GWU, etc.

Also, I graduated this past week from the University of South Carolina with a graduate degree. The amount of work and the acceptable level of work was comparable to an interim class and I really value my Wofford education more than I did when I graduated a couple years ago.

Wofford is not going to change who it is. Our strengths are in the teacher-student relationships, the size, etc. The administration knows it, and we ain't changing.

So, all of this in the context of a coaching search I think is secondary. A coach has to work with this formula, it's non-negotiable, but I also don't think it's as big of deal as some are making it.
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Re: Wofford Coaching Search

Postby lawdog on Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:39 pm

Agree with you Boulder. A college education should expand your horizons and teach you how to think and learn. You can then apply those traits on the job to learn how to do it well.
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Re: Wofford Coaching Search

Postby WocoSix on Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:41 pm

Doesn't look like the Coaching change has slowed any of the recruits from signing early. Goes to show these Athletes are coming for Wofford and a chance to win Championships. So if a coach is not named until February we should be ok. Unless its a home run hire we could expect to pick up 2 or 3 we did not account for.
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Re: Wofford Coaching Search

Postby Ruckus on Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:59 pm

Jury is still out on that one. Only 5 committed that I have seen today. Am I missing some?
FU has about 10.
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Re: Wofford Coaching Search

Postby walliver on Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:12 pm

Ruckus wrote:Jury is still out on that one. Only 5 committed that I have seen today. Am I missing some?
FU has about 10.

To be honest, from the athlete's perspective, there is little risk until waiting until February to see if the coaches who recruited them will still be here.
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