2015 Playoffs (If anyone cares)

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Re: 2015 Playoffs (If anyone cares)

Postby Ruckus on Sun Dec 20, 2015 1:25 pm

What separates us from them is a vast chasm of public school admission/academic standards, huge fertile recruiting areas, and more money to pay coaches, build facilities and generally support the program.
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Re: 2015 Playoffs (If anyone cares)

Postby mudrat43 on Mon Dec 21, 2015 4:39 pm

Well Ruck, I'm not familiar with the academic standards of the SoCon in general, or with Wofford particularly; and that could be a factor. Nor do I know how much money coaches are paid though out D1 schools.....they seem to come and go all over the place. Wofford seems (to me) to have some pretty decent facilities for its size. Now, as far as a fertile area of recruitment is concerned.....from the NC/VA line, west to GA/AL, east to the Atlantic Ocean and south to central FL, I don't believe there is a more fertile area in the U.S. of A. The combined population of those states (and a few recruits outside) should be ideal pickings. Especially with more months for kids to participate in outside activities. With the locations of NDSU and Jack. St., I'd take our area hands down..........as always, I could be wrong!
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Re: 2015 Playoffs (If anyone cares)

Postby Ruckus on Mon Dec 21, 2015 5:35 pm

SoCon standards are not the issue; the same differential exists between us and other fellow SoCon member schools such as Chatty, WCU, Sammy, ETSU, and really Cid who have a lower academic qualification threshold for admission (and retention - what good does it do to get an athlete in school if they can't graduate?) than we do. Only FU rivals us in the conference (and I would argue the entire southeast region at least in football) on the academic front. As elitest as that may seem, it is really is the truth and is based on measurable objective criteria (student admission stds, grad rates, academic ratings etc.).
I agree on the quality and quantity of athletes in the southeast (as well as the desirability of weather, surroundings, co-eds, and any measure you like). However that is only half of the story. In addition to the foregoing academic requirements, the SE also has the highest amount of competition from a recruiting standpoint, not to mention FCS recruiting specifically. Just in the immediate quad state area of NC, SC, Ga, Tenn (roughly within a 4 hour drive from Spartanburg), there are by my rough count about 30 schools who compete on a similar level to us: mid/low FBS to FCS. That's about 2500+ scholarships that are available to lure a prospective athlete away from us. In SC alone (a very small state with average at best recruiting quality and lower academic quality), there are 6 FCS competitors in addition USC and Clemson. Compare that to NDSU where they are the only real high D-1 program in 3 large geographical states (ND, SD, (and Minn. if you take out Univ. of Minn)). They are the Clemson/USC of ND and SD. They are literally the only game in town (for almost 3 states; 4 if you count Wisconsin which also lacks for a high FCS program). Which is why you are seeing us recruit more up there in Minn. and Wisconsin. As for Alabama, a fertile recruiting area with lower academic standards and huge competition among 4 mid/low FBS schools and 3 FCS schools, not to mention U of A and Auburn.
We have great facilities compared with our general budget level thanks to a few very generous donors/alums. We were the smallest school in the country for a number pf years to field a FCS football team. So our budget is very limited (how many 1500 student schools realistically compete for conference and NC titles at the D-1 level?) which is reflected in our assistants making about half of what their counterparts make at other similar schools. Heck we have lost good assistants to coordinator jobs at high schools. At the risk of sounding like a liberal Democrat, the "income inequality" in college sports is real and affecting the landscape of competitveness.
To say we do more with less than anybody in the country is an understatement. Which is why we Wofford fans/alims tend to be very realistic in what expectations are.
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Re: 2015 Playoffs (If anyone cares)

Postby boulder3m on Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:02 pm

Well said, and very true, Ruckus. As I have stated publicly, we are probably very close to being in the situation we were in when a couple of very brave folks decided to move Wofford into the D1 level. The only way we can make money in football is to go on the road and play high D1 games as a mercenary. There is much more opportunity in basketball because the NCAA pays so much to each conference when teams advance. I, as others, have lamented the way that Davidson handles their program, and that they fled to the A10 for basketball. I'm sure that there are those at Davidson who wonder why they play football at all; because regardless of the "no schollies" claim, it DOES cost them. Now there are those who wonder if maybe Davidson doesn't have it figured out.
As for the academic situation Ruckus nailed it. What Wofford and Furman do is a complete level above our competition. As for the requirements by the NCAA....it is getting to the point that when a major program comes up short academically everyone wonders how they could have been that stupid-not that they really didn't measure up. My fear is that now that the big programs are paying athletes they will be much more ruthless in running off those who aren't the players they expected in recruiting. It is going to be much easier to fire a hired hand.
The question is "where does that leave us?" We have some smart folks on our side, and I think they will figure it out.
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Re: 2015 Playoffs (If anyone cares)

Postby mudrat43 on Wed Dec 23, 2015 10:45 pm

OK Ruck, I'll concede the hunt for top tier HS players is far more intense in the SE from bigger and better (emphasis on better) programs. However lets crunch some numbers from your "geographical" areas. ND, MN, SD have a population of approx. 7mil. and not even close to the number of top level schools looking for recruits. Throw in NE, IA, and you get to about 12mil. NDSU has more players from FL than SD! The make-up: ND 18%, MN 34%, SD 3%, and OMG FL 6%, the rest from all over the U.S. Get this, Jack. St. has 98% of its players from AL, GA, FL. So much for being "out-recruited" by those big schools from the SE. And those 3 states (AL, GA, FL) have a population of approx. 35mil., add in SC, NC and parts of other SE states and you get around 50mil. Not a problem finding players, if you look. Academics wise, I just don't buy the notion that our players are building rocketships in their spare time, and those other schools players are struggling to add fractions. My question is: what makes a top D1 football recruit choose one program over another? Maybe its location (close to home), maybe its some academic discipline at a particular school, or Mommy and Daddy went there, girlfriend goes there......its endless. But if I'm a HS player who wants to get (a free) college education and can play at a high level, I'm looking for a WINNING program. How do you get and maintain a winning program, me, I don't know!?! One thing is for sure.....if all concerned are not on board and going at it with a vengeance, it just won't happen...........as always, I could be wrong.

Oh by-the-way, (Davidson, NC) QB Will Grier has been released from his scholarship at UF and can transfer (6-0 as a starter)........anyone from our favorite school thrown a line his way???
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Re: 2015 Playoffs (If anyone cares)

Postby Ruckus on Thu Dec 24, 2015 9:34 am

So NDSU has over one third of their players from one state Mn, a state with only one real big time D-1 program. Thanks for reinforcing my point. Sure they recruit now everywhere given their NCs and exposure. Why wouldn't they?
It's easier to get better players when you have more money and lower stds for academics and character, e.g. JaxSt.
Bottom line: we will not take a kid transferring out of a FCS school who has struggled academically or with disciplinary issues. Plenty of schools do and openly recruit them. We do not choose to build our program around "1 or 2 and dones".
As for winning programs only attract better players, not necessarily. Look at CSU or Univ of Houston. During our winning years, our recruiting classes weren't what they are now talent-wise (at least on paper).
Oh and by the way, we have have several players study physics at Wofford and go into aerospace engineering.
Former QB Mitch Allen took a great job right out of school working for GE. So yes they are literally building "rocketships".
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Re: 2015 Playoffs (If anyone cares)

Postby mudrat43 on Mon Dec 28, 2015 10:45 pm

The point is not that NDSU gets 1/3 of their players from one state, its that they get only 55% of their players from their geo. area. The other point is that ALL the SoCon teams get almost 100% of their players from their geo. area. The schools with more out of area players are VMI with 16 and Wofford also with 16. Chatty 1, Cid 8, Sammy 5, the rest with an average of 4. The big FBS area schools are the same, Clemson with only 4 and SC the same. That's my final point about a fertile recruiting area. There are literally tens of thousands of qualified kids in the SE to recruit from. I too cringe at the idea of recruiting transfer players who don't "fit the bill", and hope our favorite school and the SoCon in general doesn't gravitate in that direction. As for rocket scientists, one can point out someone from just about every school in the land that has had a player(s) who is a classic "overachiever" in sports and academics. However, I believe that a degree in physics at Jack. St. or NDSU is just as demanding as at Wofford. One last comment; after watching the D1 playoffs for the past several years, it seems that the top teams play with an urgency and intensity that we seem to lack (at least right now). Final round, thanks.

Hope you had a wonderful Christmas, and wish you great New Year!
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