12th Game: How about Fordham?

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12th Game: How about Fordham?

Postby JoltinJoe on Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:50 am

This week, the NCAA will probably pass legislation allowing I-AA teams to schedule a 12th game, beginning this year.

As a Fordham alum, I'm campaigning for Fordham/Wofford.

Both teams are open 9/23. Fordham has five home games this year. Wofford has six currently, so a game at Rose Hill, with a return match-up at Wofford next year, works perfectly.

Why should Wofford schedule Fordham?

You guys get a road trip to New York City. Spend the weekend in the most exciting city in the world, catch a Broadway show, visit great museums. And if you have kids, don't leave them at home, because the world famous New York Botanical Gardens and New York Zoological Park (the "Bronx Zoo") are right across the street.

Fordham is down, but never embarrassing to have on the schedule. It is a Patriot League school with a storied football history. It has 722 all time wins, the 15th most in Division I football, and the fifth most all times wins among I-AA programs. It has the most all-time wins of all I-AA programs outside of the Ivy League. Vince Lombardi played football at Fordham, and was a 1937 graduate. He was a member of the famed "Seven Blocks of Granite," probably the most celebrated college football line in history.

By scheduling a PL school, Wofford gets to underscore its excellent academic profile in another region. This could help recruiting.

So what do you guys think?
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Postby Rowdy on Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:16 am

Sign me up. You make a compelling argument and I would enjoy a road trip to NY.
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Postby fgs44 on Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:18 am

I think its a great idea in all respects except one----expense----Wofford and Fordham would both have to fly----In Woffords case the hotel expense would be extraordinary-----If you play 1-aa schools out of conference the overriding factor is usually cost when you consider schedules---Wofford may have an opportunity to play in NY state because rumor has it that Syracuse is trying to schedule a game with Wofford, but in that case the pay-out to Wofford is in the $400,000 range---After travel costs are deducted, Wofford will net $300,000----
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Postby BestOfBreed on Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:10 pm

I like the idea of playing at Fordham or any other PL school for that matter but I have to agree with fgs44 that the travel costs would be high. If the Terriers do schedule a 12th game then Charleston Southern is free on 9/23. It would certainly continue a trend with the 2006 schedule. I doubt we play a 12th game though.
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Postby dungeonjoe on Sat Apr 22, 2006 3:31 pm

First, let me welcome my AGS friend to terrierfans.com! You are always welcome here.

Fordham-Wofford sounds good. The travel expenses might be prohibitive, but I would rather play a I-AA (or whatever that classification will be) than another I-A. Since we are already playing USC, another I-A game might leave us with another loss, or worse, injuries as we go into the heart of our season.
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Postby JoltinJoe on Sat Apr 22, 2006 4:41 pm

Thanks, DJ.

Yes, it's all about the travel costs in I-AA. That's why there really aren't any intersectional rivalries in I-AA (or whatever it's going to be called).

But I'd still love a Wofford/Fordham series but I suspect you're right about the cost issue.
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Postby TDOG21 on Mon Apr 24, 2006 3:04 pm

Fordham might be a good choice. If we can't get a big payday, I think we should schedule an out of conference game against a team that is regulalarly in the top 25. Playing Gardner-Webb/VMI/big south does not have any benefits in the top 25 polls. If we are going to continue to get bids (non-automatic) to the tournament, we need to continue to get quaility top 25 wins
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Postby Terriertime on Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:34 pm

Geez, we're already playing South Carolina State and Coastal Carolina, and that's not even mentioning the Gamecocks. How much harder could our non conference schedule be?
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Postby TDOG21 on Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:22 pm

You are right Coastal was pretty good last year, SC state I don't know. Maybe I should clarify my remarks. I was simply saying that if we play some of the better teams in 1-AA such as William and Mary, Hofstra, Delaware, etc. that when the playoffs come around we will have a stronger resume. Coastal plays in the big south and is a league that gets little if any respect. The big south does not even get an automatic bid. I am not sure what SC State has this year, but if we routinely beat them in the past (although there have been some close games). While travel costs probably prevent us from playing Montana and some of the stronger West Coast teams, out of market games can be beneficial when attempting to make the playoffs. I just do not want another 2002 to occur where we are clearly a playoff team, but we did not make the playoffs. While the committe will always be able to say we don't travel well, if we have beaten top 25 teams in other power conferences it will give the terriers more credibility as well as the socon.
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Postby Terriertime on Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:51 pm

South Carolina State is 26-8 over the last 3 seasons. The Terriers are definately playing a very challenging non-conference schedule in 2006. In 2002, the Terriers escaped with a 7-6 win against them, and in 2004 won 24-22, in a game which could have very easily won by the Bulldogs.
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Postby Eyes of Old Main on Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:40 pm

I'm all for intersectional games, but playing schools closer to home makes more sense financially and at the box office. Wofford's attendence is not what it could be and as interesting as a Fordham matchup is to me, I doubt it would be to the general public. Not to donplay Fordham at all, I just think it's more likely that Wofford could grow it's attendence figures to that of The Citadel and Furman with matchups against schools from a closer geographic area.

But, let us not forget that back in the day Wofford was exploring a move to D-I it was considered much more likely to affiliate with either the Patriot or CAA than the SoCon until Marshall paved the way for the Terriers by bolting for the "big time". The negative then is as it is today; travel. But it would have been interesting to see the Terriers face off against the likes of Fordham, Lafayette, Lehigh, Holy Cross, Colgate, etc.
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Postby fgs44 on Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:12 am

With Coastal, S.C. State, and S.C., plus the SoCo schedule, I think we have as competitive schedule as anyone in 1-aa; certainly it ranks up there. At the same time, we have a high profile money game within our home state. (One of these days we might win one of those). At the same time there is no added expenses for this schedule. I think it would be great to play Patriot League teams, or Texas teams, or good teams from around the country, but it is an example of Wofford doing more with less, again.
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Postby BossTerrier on Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:49 am

TDOG21 wrote:You are right Coastal was pretty good last year, SC state I don't know. Maybe I should clarify my remarks. I was simply saying that if we play some of the better teams in 1-AA such as William and Mary, Hofstra, Delaware, etc. that when the playoffs come around we will have a stronger resume. Coastal plays in the big south and is a league that gets little if any respect. The big south does not even get an automatic bid. I am not sure what SC State has this year, but if we routinely beat them in the past (although there have been some close games). While travel costs probably prevent us from playing Montana and some of the stronger West Coast teams, out of market games can be beneficial when attempting to make the playoffs. I just do not want another 2002 to occur where we are clearly a playoff team, but we did not make the playoffs. While the committe will always be able to say we don't travel well, if we have beaten top 25 teams in other power conferences it will give the terriers more credibility as well as the socon.


We couldn't have any more quality wins than we did in 2002. GSU, APP State, SC State, on the way to 9-3. Problem was we had never finished higher than 4th in the SoCon and were a relative unknown in the 1AA football world until 2002. We lost to VMI that year which to this day is still puzzling, but that loss along with our past DI history sealed our fate. The playoffs are all politics and reputation. We got hosed and our quality wins didn't matter.
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Postby Eyes of Old Main on Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:26 pm

BossTerrier wrote:We got hosed and our quality wins didn't matter.


There is a lot of truth in this statement, Wofford probably would have gotten in even with the VMI loss had they been a "name" school, but since they didn't have the name, the VMI loss became an excuse to justify keeping the Terriers out.

But, on the other hand, in 2004 Wofford was 8-3 and riding the respect garnered by being arguable the second best team in I-AA the year before (that's right, I'm saying we were better than Colgate and I know Delaware fans that agree with me), but only beating a winless VMI team in the final week by one point in a miraculous come from behind win doomed a team that was "on the bubble".

A weak schedule can't help you nearly as much as it can hurt you. If you win against those teams, you should have. If you don't win by enough, then you look bad and if you lose, then it is devastating. On the other hand, a loss to a team you should have lost too hurts, but doesn't have the sting of losing to VMI like what Wofford experienced in 2002.
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