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Looks like PC is moving to D-1

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:13 pm
by Rowdy
Article in The State Newspaper says PC is moving to Division 1 ... 219028.htm

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:22 pm
by Eyes of Old Main
I think it's fairly obvious that PC's study was strongly based off Wofford's experience after having moved to D-I. I guess we can file that under "imitation is the most sincere form of flattery".

It will be interesting to see how quickly a Wofford/PC rivalry is rekindled and also how competitive they can become. While I've always had a certain level of disdain for PC, I actually am looking forward to the Terriers squaring off against them since it might help energize things a bit amongst our fan base.

One other thing to consider is their Big South affiliation which at present looks inferior to Wofford's SoCon membership. But, looking down the road, suppose several of the larger SoCon schools like GSU or Appalachian moves up to I-A? Would the two conferences merge? Might the situation dictate a conference shift? Something like that could really trigger an interesting series of events.

Good luck to them and at the very least I can renew my old question, "what the hell is a Blue Hose"?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:18 pm
by walliver
I doubt the Big South and SoCon would ever merge. What would Wofford, Furman, Elon, Davidson and Citadel want to do with any of the Big South schools. The Big South is not known for academics. Other than CCU, none of them are particularly good at Football either (and even CCU is yet to prove themselves, although this year should tell).

PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 12:44 pm
by Eyes of Old Main
Oh, I doubt they'd want to as well, but I was saying suppose that GSU and Appalachian left the SoCon for the Sun Belt (which both have discussed). A move by Appalachian might trigger a move by Western Carolina and Chattanooga is facing some of the same football problems that doomed ETSU's program.

If all that came to pass, which is just speculation at this point on my part, but certainly plausible, the SoCon would be left with Wofford, Furman, The Citadel, and Elon. Then you get into the discussion of who do you bring in? Logically, Big South schools would enter into those talks since the SoCon has already pulled Elon out and has been linked to pulling Coastal Carolina out.

Besides, if all that happened, a mixture of Wofford, Furman, The Citadel, Elon, Coastal Carolina, VMI, PC, Gardner-Webb and Charleston Southern wouldn't be all that bad, particularly from a local flavor and rivalry standpoint. Certainly not as competitive but more consistent as far as size goes. As far as academics, what does that have to do with anything? Aside from Furman (and possibly Elon) who in the SoCon is on Wofford's academic level? Is Wofford really concerned about the academics at GSU, Appalachian or Chattanooga? Should athletic affiliations be made based off The Princeton Review?

I'm not saying I'd rather see Wofford jump to the Big South. I prefer the current mix of schools in the SoCon. But, to say that things will always remain the same and that what works now will continue to work is naive. Hopefully, nothing changes, but I think we should be realistic about what could happen and at least think about what it could mean for Wofford's positon.

Furthermore, if we are talking about performance, I think it's safe to say Wofford could win more than one conference championship in 10 years with the Big South schools in the mix. While I am proud of what Wofford has achieved since moving up to D-I, I think I can honestly say that the win/loss performance of our programs as a whole could be graded as no better than a C-.

I realize that might be construed as an inflammatory statement, but in most sports Wofford ranks middle of the pack or lower. At some point, US News rankings and graduation rates become less relevant and win/loss records must be evaluated.

All that being said, all I am trying to say is that:

1) Wofford is a great school, but shouldn't hide poor or average athletic outcomes behind academic standards, graduation rates or lack of funding/resources.

2) Wofford should always be aware of what is going on around it and should not be so set in its ways that it clings to arrangements that hinder its success.

3) Wofford should realize that the success of an athletic department is measured both on the field and off. Success in one area without success in the other is not true success.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:20 pm
by Ruckus
In response, let me say that I agree generally with the points made above. I would probably give a solid "C" to our overall athletic performance, with football and few of the minor sports propping up up the score for the woeful basketball and baseball programs. While Wofford should be proud and mindful of its academic stds, I too agree that academic stds and graduation rates should have nothing to do with our conference alliances or athletic success. Wins and losses matter. Period. That said, I am not in favor of the SoCon breaking ranks and having to add the mentioned schools for several reasons, which have nothing to do with academics (Furman is alone in my opinion in the SoCon as being anything close to our academic equal, which it certainly is; if not superior). 1) There is no doubt that the SoCon is the most competitive football conference in D-1AA as it is comprised right now and it has great tradition isn that regard; 2) those schools do not come close to replacing the tradition or competitiveness of the current SoCOn members (although Wofford would certainly fare better); 3) Wofford benefits from being affiliated with larger, more diverse, regional schools than those mentioned. All that said, I doubt Appy or GSU will switch. I think they have had that option before and like being big fish in a small pond.
BTW - I am glad to see PC going D-1 and I wish them success but I doubt the Wofford "model" can be duplicated without a Danny Morrison and a Mr. Jerry Richardson in their fold.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 2:46 pm
by ShortHairedDog
I would love to know what the elders of the SoCon(Ga Southern, Furman, Citadel, etc) woud say about this. They are still up in arms that adding Wofford to the SoCon made it a weaker conference.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 2:57 pm
by Ruckus
Unfortuantely, I would have to agree with them in terms of most sports, excluding football.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:53 pm
by Eyes of Old Main
We agree on most points, but the choice of whether bigger schools stay or go is not in Wofford's hands. While we might want the to stay, if they choose to go, then there are no options to replace the power that would be lost. In that regard, it would become a question of best fit under the circumstances.

Besides, while I'd like to still say that the SoCon is the toughest football conference, I think we realistically have to give that nod to either the A-10 or possibly the Gateway. The top half of the SoCon could compete in these leagues, but no way our bottom half could win against their bottom halves, but that's another argument.

I'm not in favor of "breaking ranks" either, but I think it's safe to say that change is inevitable whether it's in 2-3 years or 10-15. A departure of GSU or ASU would definately hurt the conference in many ways, but it could happen even if Wofford doesn't want it to happen. All I am suggesting is an alternative to what could happen in a given scenario.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:06 am
by Ruckus
While the Gateway is stronger than it has been in the past, I strongly disagree about the SoCon being weaker top to bottom than either the Gateway or the A-10. Perhaps in the past, the A-10 was the premier national powerhouse conference but no longer. While the D-1 transfer rules have significantly affected the ability of schools to compete on an odd year basis, I still say that, year in and year out, the SoCon is the strongest conference in the country. That would definitely change if we lost GSU and Appy. If they broke ranks, I would hope the SoCon would approach schools like William and Mary (former SoCon member from years past) and Richmond from the Patriot Conference, and even Samford or Jacksonville State. Of PC, G-W, or Coastal, I would take PC first then Coastal just because I respect PC as a fine academic institution and they have a great football history for a small college (actually larger than Wofford by 100 students) which is as good if not better than Wofford's.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:06 pm
by BestOfBreed
It's official. Announced by the Big South today. ... LID=264869

PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 3:38 pm
by walliver
What's the soonest we could realistically play PC in football?

2006 is already scheduled.

In 2007, we already have 7 conference games and probably follow-up games with SCState, Coastal, and Gardner-Webb (there better be a very good reason for playing in Boiling Springs 2 years in a row) and possibly a I-A game - that pretty much fills out the schedule.

It looks like 2008 would be the earliest we could schedule them. Since the last PC game was played at Gibbs, PC might hold out for a game in Clinton - I guess it depends on what the rest of our home schedule looks like.

I would much rather play PC tham Gardner-Webb, but I am somewhat concerned that our out-of-conference schedule is developing a small geographic footprint. Playing teams in South Carolina, or in the case of GWO near the state line) is good in that fans can travel to the games, but I think we need to look at Furman's recent schedules with games against Samford, Jacksonville State (It would be great to get revenge for the D-II whoopings), Richmond, and William and Mary. I know it's more expensive, but provides better press exposure for Wofford outside of the Carolinas. Which will hopefull help with recruiting (athletes and regular students) as well as increase our chances for an at-large bid. Unless we develope a more regional/national reputation, we will always lose out to Furman, Appy, and GSU in the at-large battles.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 4:22 pm
by Ruckus
You are preaching to the choir, except that i would still like us to schedule at least 1 in-state school every year. Frankly, I see us (or any SoCon school) giving G-W and Coastal much needed legitimacy so there is really no benefit to us to schedule them other than geography and convenience. At least with PC, we have a long history and institutional similarities. See my post above re J'ville State, Samford, W-M, and Richmond.

PC will need to show competitiveness in crap Big South

PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:45 am
by dcterriers
Presbyterian College? What the heck?

PC thinks that they can play Wofford soon.
Actually, Wofford would have nothing to gain by and everythingto lose.

Can you imagine those rednecks in Rock Hill (Winthorpe), Lexington (VMI), and Lynchburg (Libery) getting so excited. They will be shouting, "PC is coming to town!! PC is coming to town!!"

And besides, what is Blue Hose? Is it related to panty hose :lol:

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:12 pm
by gophoenix
If App and GSU leave then the conference needs to fix things fast. I think that may be why the 14 team conference being pushed by the commish and why it is taking so logn to add a football member.

My guess is that Western fans will be upset if GSU and App leave, but more out of a feeling of being deserted. They are a smaller public school in a small market. Their sports of late haven't been spectacular, who's going to take them? And if the conference plays their cards right, UTC will stay depending on who we add now.

Presbyterian would fit in well with Elon, Furman, Wofford and The Citadel overall. Coastal, Jacksonville State, Kennesaw St (if they add football), North Alabama (if they move up), UNCP (when they move up) could all be possibilities, some bad and some good. Plus you still have opportunities with SC State, A&T, Hampton and Delaware St who have an increasing number of young alums who want to leave the MEAC.

IMHO Charleston Southern should be out, end of story. Gardner-Webb should also be out, end of story. I can't take the piss poor academics, poor facilities, fights at games, g-w's ncaa investigation, etc. It's too much and the rest of deserve better.

So what could the SoCon look like? Depends on the focus, if you keep it a private like league:
Furman, Wofford, Elon, Prebyterian, The Citadel, VMI, Liberty, Samford, Hampton, Campbell, Davidson, CofC

or the public-private mix:
Furman, Elon, Wofford, The Citadel, VMI, Western, UTC, Coastal, Samford, Kennnesaw St, ETSU (if the revivie football)/SC State/A&T

We have options, the SoCon just has an image crisis right now and needs to have the schools work together instead of against each other.