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Southern Conference Champions - 2007

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Postby Rowdy on Mon May 14, 2007 10:11 am

Hi Ruckus, glad you're back. haven't heard from you in some time. Thought you might be mad at me and my ridiculous posts. You know, about giving a man a fair chance to prove he can coach before you fire him. I just don't think that's the Wofford way. Let's see how he does with 3 more scholarships (Sessoms scholarships) and if he doesn't perform at that time, we don't renew his contract. That's the Wofford way. And let's get something straight. I've never advocated dropping baseball or any other sport. You and "Eyes" read more into my posts than what's there.
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Postby terriers on Mon May 14, 2007 12:41 pm

With all due respect to the "Wofford Way", I think we are beyond
that point, regardless of the Sessom schaolarships. According to
the Dept of Education's figures for last year Wofford spent $85,041
on baseball to $76,849 spent by Western. We have an eight year
coach and they come to our house and blow us away three games
61-13, leaving us in the SoCon cellar with a record of 6-18.

If that's the Wofford way then we need a revision. I feel for our
position players knowing they have to score in double digits to
have a chance to win. I know RJ real well and am interested in
what he has to say.
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Postby Rowdy on Mon May 14, 2007 1:18 pm

I'm wondering what makes up the figures we see published. It can't include scholarships? Maybe coaches salary, uniforms, and travel expenses? Another question I have, does everyone use the same accounting rules in the NCAA? Anyway, if it doesn't include scholarships (and that's an unknown), are we comparing apples to apples?
Rowdy
 

Postby BestOfBreed on Mon May 14, 2007 1:50 pm

Just something for thought. Here's a comparison of total tuition for Wofford and Western Carolina. Western gets 3.5 scholarships for every 1 scholarship that Wofford funds or 1.5 if you want to use the out-of-state numbers.

Both sets of numbers include all expenses.

Tuition at Western Carolina:
In-state: $9,973
Out-of-state: $19,556

http://www.wcu.edu/285.asp

Tuition at Wofford:
$35,535
http://wofford.edu/businessOffice/tuition.aspx
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Postby BestOfBreed on Mon May 14, 2007 2:09 pm

Rowdy wrote:I'm wondering what makes up the figures we see published. It can't include scholarships? Maybe coaches salary, uniforms, and travel expenses? Another question I have, does everyone use the same accounting rules in the NCAA? Anyway, if it doesn't include scholarships (and that's an unknown), are we comparing apples to apples?


It doesn't seem like the Department of Education numbers include scholarships. I think you're right that it's probably just salaries, field maintenance, power for the lights, travel costs, recruiting, etc. Not sure about the accounting rules. I wanted to see if the revenues were included in the department of ed numbers but the site has changed and I haven't been able to find how to get to the data now. Seems like Western could generate a little more revenue based on attendance than Wofford.
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Postby terriers on Mon May 14, 2007 3:40 pm

I just received a return E-mail from RJ. He said they have recruited
three pitchers for next year that they feel will help. He said they have
added a half scholarship this year and plan to add another whole one
next year. I assume the Sessoms scholarships are being added
piecemeal.

I think our problem goes deeper than scholarships and I plan to pur-
sue this at our next directors meeting. I would encourage all you
other supporters who are baseball fans to let the athletic dept. hear
from you. We want a competitive ball club and we have already
waited eight years.
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Postby Rowdy on Mon May 14, 2007 5:11 pm

Terriers, I guess we just see things differently. I think the problem is talent. We have a good offensive club, and a poor defensive one. Pitching is the problem. And you aren't going to correct that without some scholarships to spread around. From the RJ e-mail, it sounds like help is on the way in the pitching arena. But it's just plain wrong to demand a man's job because he could not win with less talent than his competitors due to scholarship limitations. My ethics just will not allow me to do that and I will be lobbying RJ as well to that extent. If anyone else believes as I do, they should also let RJ know how they feel. Of course, I may be the Lone Ranger and I usually am.

And I don't know Coach Traylor. Never met him and wouldn't recognize him if he walked in the room right now.
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Postby BestOfBreed on Mon May 14, 2007 6:43 pm

Rowdy wrote:Terriers, I guess we just see things differently. I think the problem is talent. We have a good offensive club, and a poor defensive one. Pitching is the problem. And you aren't going to correct that without some scholarships to spread around. From the RJ e-mail, it sounds like help is on the way in the pitching arena. But it's just plain wrong to demand a man's job because he could not win with less talent than his competitors due to scholarship limitations. My ethics just will not allow me to do that and I will be lobbying RJ as well to that extent. If anyone else believes as I do, they should also let RJ know how they feel. Of course, I may be the Lone Ranger and I usually am.

And I don't know Coach Traylor. Never met him and wouldn't recognize him if he walked in the room right now.


Less talent? What about Davidson? Wofford has more scholarships than Davidson and a much better stadium. Davidson has finished higher than Wofford 4 years in a row and this year could make it 5. Furman isn't funded by much more than Wofford (seems like they have around 1 scholarship more but that could be wrong). They consistently perform better than Wofford and even won the SoCon tournament since Wofford has joined.
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Postby Rowdy on Mon May 14, 2007 7:10 pm

BoB, not doubting your word, but how does one find out how many scholarships each school has? I've never found it other than posts to forums such as this. If you're correct, and again I'm not doubting you, I stand corrected. But I do need to verify.
Rowdy
 

Postby terriers on Mon May 14, 2007 10:21 pm

This is not a vendetta against Steve Traylor. I've met Coach Traylor
several times and like him very much. He seems to be a class guy
who I'm sure knows baseball and represents Wofford very well. He
might be able to solve some problems by replacing some assistants
and I realize this is difficult because they hardly make enough to
live on. The fact remains he has not been able to get us out of the
cellar for eight years and that alone speaks volumes.

Coach Traylor is a nice fellow, about 55, who is moving along toward
retirement. Although pitching is clearly our main problem, I think
this club lacks something else that could be provided by a younger,
more energetic coach who has Wofford ties and a strong love for
the school. I know Mark Line coached against much weaker oppo-
sition but I have never talked to a player who did not sing his praises.
There are times when you just need to shake things up and I think
we are there.
terriers
 

Postby Eyes of Old Main on Mon May 14, 2007 11:03 pm

All of us on both sides for this issue want what's best for Wofford and it's student-athletes, we just differ in how best to do that. My position is well known.

The only other thought I have to add to this discussion is that if Wofford had a professor in any academic department on campus that consistently underperformed in their area of focus the way Coach Traylor has, then I am confident he would not be allowed to continue no matter how well-liked he or she is.

Wofford is not a government agency where someone can keep their nose clean and ride their job out until retirement. Maybe letting Coach Traylor go is harsh, but if Wofford isn't getting a successful result they should try another direction if there is no evidence to support an improving trend. The only trend I see is the continued excuses that "next years recruits are going to help us turn the corner" and "Coach sure is a nice guy".

The same should go for all coaches in the athletic department that have had a fair amount of time to succeed (3-5 years in my opinion). As far as I see it, most notably this should have both Coach Traylor and Coach Young on the clock.
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Postby BestOfBreed on Mon May 14, 2007 11:27 pm

I just noticed that Western has now won 17 straight games against the Terriers. Ouch!
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Postby BossTerrier on Tue May 15, 2007 8:53 am

Anyone that runs an organization can understand this is time for a change. I do not expect us to contend for a SoCon title every year, but for goodness sakes .500 in the conference should be do-able. Rowdy, I understand the point of giving the coach the tools to do the job, and you can't hold him accountable for things out of his control. However, since improving to 14-16 under Traylor in the Conference in 2002, we haven't come close in the last 5 yrs to a respectable conference record. The point is, we've gone backwards. We may not have the full amount of scholarships, but not many teams in the conference do. But we do have excellent facilities, and a world class education to offer. The team has gone backwards and that is where I find fault. And you can't beat teams like USC, even 1 out of 6 times, without talent. We're just not consistent. I want the best for our boys giving their all on the field. When I was at Wofford I ran Cross Country and Track and I can tell you that it wasn't fair to us to have a sorry coach who cared more about his pest control business on the side than our performance on the track. We all felt like "is this all we're worth to the college?" The boys that are there want to see that Wofford, just like any other school, is committed to winning, along with academics. Do you think that Furman would put up with 5 straight years of these Conference records:

2003: 7-22
2004: 8-22
2005: 7-23
2006: 5-22
2007: 6-18* With a series against Elon left to play

Wofford tought us to strive for excellence, and to do more with less. I didn't learn to make excuses and complain because life is not fair. I'm sure coaching at Wofford is hard, but it's not impossible. Ask Coach Ayers.
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Postby TURKEYCREEK on Tue May 15, 2007 8:56 am

Wofford does tend to be like a government agency and allow the coaches to keep their jobs until they retire or take another position elsewhere. I have been out of Wofford almost 20 years and I cant remember the last time a coach left, other than on his own.

Sure Gilstrap was let go, but other than that, I cant remember another giving being asked to leave. There may be an occurance or two, but I cant remember it.
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Postby Eyes of Old Main on Tue May 15, 2007 9:36 am

TURKEYCREEK wrote:Wofford does tend to be like a government agency and allow the coaches to keep their jobs until they retire or take another position elsewhere. I have been out of Wofford almost 20 years and I cant remember the last time a coach left, other than on his own.

Sure Gilstrap was let go, but other than that, I cant remember another giving being asked to leave. There may be an occurance or two, but I cant remember it.


Actually, you are right. Wofford doesn't really get rid of underperforming coaches, but if they ran their atheltic department like they run the rest of the school, they would. I guess they don't have the money to buy out contracts.

As for coaches leaving, I think the best illustration is that since I started following Wofford (early 90's), to my knowledge, no Terrier head coach has left to go to another college for an equal or better job. You'd think in over 15 years, someone would have done a good enough job to be noticed and hired to a better job.

I'm not saying we need to start acting like Georgia Southern's football program, but 3-5 years is reasonable by almost anyone's standard and if Traylor, Young or anybody else can't show a definitive upward trend after that time, then other avenues should be investigated.
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