Page 1 of 2

Terriers vs. Spartans tilt?

PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:51 pm
by WoCo NH Dude
Herald-Journal's Sports Director opines: (not Todd) ... SC-Upstate

Shall we dance with the neighbors on the men's hoops stage?

Re: Terriers vs. Spartans tilt?

PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:20 pm
by Ruckus
Hatchet job by hometown newspaper on the heels of greatest season ever. Sad.
His solution is to nix a game with a rival That has existed more than twice as long as USCS has even been in existence. Borders on the ridiculous.
Had a response typed out to Dalton all day. Here's a hashtag for him: #goawayupstate
BTW - Dalton's daughter is a Furple. So there u go.

Re: Terriers vs. Spartans tilt?

PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:07 pm
by dungeonjoe
Slow news day when you have to do a hatchet job. The WWF must have been off Saturday.

Re: Terriers vs. Spartans tilt?

PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:50 pm
by Eyes of Old Main
I can understand the argument on a simplistic level, and when Wofford has had those season where they couldn't schedule a single OOC D-I game at home I have advocated a series with Upstate (or USC-S, if you are from my day). They are right about it generating some interest and it probably would be good for both schools athletically and financially. I am also careful not to look at them in the same light Furman used to look (some would say still looks) at us. All that being said, if our AD and head coach doesn't want to play them then that is the answer since they are the ones making the call. It's not like we are really playing other A-Sun teams. Furthermore, using the local press to try to strong arm a game reeks of a culture I'd rather not see Wofford reward. They may have a good program, but that doesn't mean they are a good fit for Wofford's schedule.

As for the commentator, he goes to great length to lay out an argument worth consideration only to resort to cheap shot gotcha jabs at the end so I'm not sure he should be the final say on class.

Re: Terriers vs. Spartans tilt?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:24 am
by woffordgrad94
I've said it before and I'll say it again...Wofford should play Upstate. Many people see Wofford as having their nose up in the air here. I don't like people thinking of me as "snobbish and better than thou" just because I went to Wofford, but unfortunately folks, that is our stereotype and people think us not playing Upstate is simply us living up to that unflattering stereotype. It's really very simple. Just take off Florida National or Ohio Valley from the schedule and replace them with Upstate. No one cares about these non D1 games that do nothing at all for our RPI. So they will draw under 1000 fans. Upstate might draw over 2000. We can still play all the Dukes and West Virginias of the world too.

Re: Terriers vs. Spartans tilt?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:04 am
by Ruckus
So we reward (that's not high handed; it's fact. 4 out of 6 years in NCAAA and SoCon champs) a culture of classless sniveling whiners who conspire with a local sympathizer (remember Boynton tried this 2 years ago) to strong arm and threaten us with school yard taunts? No thanks. After this stunt, he'll would freeze over before I would play them if I was MY.
And we HAVE played USCS - 2010. Is that not good enough? Do they want a game every year now? Or is it just because they are now improved hat they think they deserve to play us? Didn't hear all this clamor before they had this nice run. So it's only good for "the community" if USCS has a real shot at winning (and they do)? That's not an argument; that's relativism: we are good now so you need to play us because we might beat you; and if you don't you're SKEERED!
I was there in 1988 for the game. It wasn't pretty. We were treated badly over there. Why doesn't Dalton write a commentary on that?
Furman is 30 miles away; why doesn't he advocate for a game with them too? Great for the community, would generate interest, would be well attended, they could do it for charity even. Hmmmm, could it be that Payne and Co would get nothing out of that matchup or win? Ding ding ding - we have a winner.

Re: Terriers vs. Spartans tilt?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:48 am
by BubbaDog
Let me start by saying that I don't give a crap about the politics of it (who has something to gain/lose, etc). The article takes shots at Wofford that it shouldn't. I think that playing Upstate should at least be considered. They are a school in the same town, and they aren't terrible. If you're willing to play them in one sport, you should be willing to play them in every other sport. However, I don't think cancelling games with a very similar rival (PC) is the way to go. I think the only reason you shouldn't schedule them is if they were just so bad that it'd screw up your RPI.

Re: Terriers vs. Spartans tilt?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:07 am
by Terrier13
One thing perhaps worth considering is that, even if we do a home-and-home series with them, the home game we host in the BenJo would likely be a defacto road game since Upstate has so many more students than us. While we have had good student support in the past, all of our students can only fill up half the gym, at most- the other half would be Upstate supporters. I understand the sentiment for a rivalry game since the schools are so close but attempting to strong-arm us into it seems to not be the best approach.

Re: Terriers vs. Spartans tilt?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:13 am
by Ruckus
Obvious shots aside isn't it curious that the timing of this hack job comes AFTER we conclude our best season ever? Why not run this last year when everyone and their brother knew we were returning the odds on favorite team to win the SoCon as opposed to now when we are "rebuilding"? Surely Dalton had this same opinion last year after we made our tourney run? Or does he take this shot now when he thinks USCS has a better shot a beating us during a rebuilding year.

Re: Terriers vs. Spartans tilt?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:11 am
by walliver
This is an issue going back 30 years, back when USCS went from a 2 year to a 4 year school in the 1970's. At that time, they had better facilities (I remember Andrews Field House). For a number of years we didn't play them. We played for a few years and then the series died.

By the early 80's, they had a stronger program and won a NAIA title in 1982. With the move to the SoCon in the mid 1990's, out program gradually progressed, but didn't blossom until the last 7-8 years.

Our average attendance is significantly higher that the Hodge Center's capacity (818). There really isn't much in this kind of game for us. On the other hand, playing the Spartans instead of a D2 or NAIA school would help our RPI.

This is not really a rivalry game. Our real rivals are FU and the Citadel, and looking forward, possibly Mercer. PC's D-I transition has been less successful than ours, and the rivalry has waned somewhat (I wonder what the feeling of current students is?). I'd rather play USCU than Toccoa Falls, but would much prefer to play Davidson or even UNCC.

Re: Terriers vs. Spartans tilt?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:36 am
by WTFan
I believe when the schedule permits one year we will play them again. However, MY is certainly not going to and should not revisit his schedule just because of some newspaper article. The article should have been written simply to advocate for a game between the schools and not the way it was (i.e. Is Wofford ducking USCU). But as we all know those articles don't sell papers. Ultimately, not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things but the way the story was written certainly makes it less likely that we will be playing USCU in the near future.

Re: Terriers vs. Spartans tilt?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:18 pm
by Hobo
Dalton is going to be on Open Mic today with Hauser at 3:25. I can't be listen but maybe somebody else can

Re: Terriers vs. Spartans tilt?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:18 pm
by dude
A few thoughts:

**I tend to agree that Wofford has little to gain by playing USC-Upstate. Still, I think it is hard to justify not playing a game against a team in town that is a solid D1 program. It could be a big event locally, and that could be positive for both schools. Same time, I figure that Wofford wants to be the big event -- not share it. So I have mixed feelings, I guess.

**I believe I was at the first Wofford-USCS game in the late 1970s. It was at Andrews Fieldhouse. Wofford won on a last second shot. The place was insanely loud. Too bad that old place couldn't be renovated as the new home for Wofford basketball.....I love the old fieldhouse vibe.

**I remember seeing Wofford and USCS play a number of times in the 1980s. USCS had some really good teams.

**I think there was some bad blood between Richard Johnson and former USCS coach Jerry Waters....that maybe Johnson thought Waters was trying to basically recruit one his players to transfer out to "the branch" or something like that.

**Bob Dalton is opinionated, but I think he is a good guy. And he does a case here....that if you're an objective basketball fan, it could be a fun basketball event for the town of Spartanburg. It's easy to see how he'd make that case.

Re: Terriers vs. Spartans tilt?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:18 pm
by Terrier13
Listened to the last half of the broadcast... he made some interesting points but he insisted that Wofford football was the main driver of revenue and awareness of the Wofford brand, both locally and nationally (he somewhat walked the national brand awareness part back). I'm just not sure that's true though. He indicated that making the FCS playoffs was huge for Wofford football and on par with making the NCAA tourney for Wofford basketball which seems completely ridiculous, IMO. The only reason anyone has heard of Wofford nationally is because of basketball; unless our football program were to upset a ranked FBS team ala App State & Michigan, there's no real avenue to getting national attention on the FCS level, whether you make the playoffs or even win the championship. Case in point, App State had won 3 FCS national championships in the mid-2000s and even they weren't really recognized until they pulled off the upset in 2007. As has been stated here many times recently, the path to national exposure for Wofford is through our basketball team, plain and simple.

Hauser did a good job of keeping Dalton in line and correcting him as needed. While Hauser admitted (and I agree) that from a fan's perspective, you want the teams to play each other, from a program development standpoint, the Florida National and Ohio Valley games are great for getting our young guys some in game experience that is much more difficult for them to get once we get into the conference slate. In addition, as to where the game would be played, it would have to be in the BenJo since Upstate's gym only seats ~800 people.

Re: Terriers vs. Spartans tilt?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:21 pm
by youngterrier
Yeah a couple thoughts from a Wofford Student/ "Spartanburg resident" perspective:

Since I've been at Wofford, I think campus interest is a barometer of national interest in the Basketball v. Football. In other words, I think if you're student body isn't hyped for a team, chances are national interest isn't either. In this way, there has never been more interest for Wofford athletics (since I've been at Wofford) before this basketball season. We made the playoffs in FCS football my freshmen year, the hype was nothing compared to the first furman basketball game, the Iona game, etc.

It's a lot easier for a school our size to support a basketball team and create excitement around a program than it is a football team playing FCS.

As for playing Upstate in basketball, I'm not against it, but you have to look at it from a pro/con perspective. I can tell you right now, if it was announced tomorrow we were playing them next season, WAR and the students would probably promote that game just as much if not more than senior night, the furman game, socon championship, etc. I really don't believe Upstate would have more people at benjo than us. We have a more consistent program right now and the campus unity of Wofford is easily superior to Upstate. Simultaneously though, a home and home doesn't do much for Wofford from a revenue standpoint. There's not much Upstate could pay us with their program, and it would be a de facto away game in spite of the distance. We had more students attend the Socon championship game than they had total at 3 of their home games. The socon may not be a great basketball conference, but it's clearly a conference with superior basketball teams, facilities, and resources to the A Sun.

Also, I can also tell you right now, Wofford students would be a lot meaner to Upstate people than vice versa. Upstate and Converse (I don't know if this was the same when you guys were at Wofford) are sort of the punching bags when wofford students joke about other schools. Perhaps this is the phenomena of "the wofford bubble" but I forget Upstate exists sometimes. Upstate playing wofford at anything is a bigger deal for Upstate than Wofford until they beat us. Right now, they're just not compelling to play.

So, I'm not against it, but at the same time, I think upstate would be biting off more than they could chew. the positives don't outweigh the negatives for wofford.