Wofford's Snub of Spartans

SoCon Champs - 2010, 2011, 2014, 2015

Moderators: BestOfBreed, dungeonjoe

Wofford's Snub of Spartans

Postby dungeonjoe on Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:34 am

User avatar
dungeonjoe
True Terrier Fan
 
Posts: 1077
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 4:04 am
Location: Cayce, SC

Postby Eyes of Old Main on Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:41 pm

It's very hard to argue with most of the points made in this article.

I used to be VERY opposed to playing USC-Upstate in any sport, particularly basketball. I felt like they were beneath us academically and athletically. I was afraid their looser academic standards gave them too many recruiting advantages. I didn't want to help them grow a program that would surpass ours in terms of success. I just didn't see the benefit of playing them. I guess you could say I was a cowardly snob.

That being said, now I see this situation totally differently and heres why.

The response credited to RJ in this article makes no sense. If Wofford is so concerned about it's RPI (as if anyone from the SoCon is going to get an at-large NCAA bid), then why do we schedule our maximum of 4 non-D-I games every year? Most other SoCon schools don't do it, so why should we? Particularly if we are so concerned with being good citizens within the conference to help withthe overall RPI. No one on Earth is going to convince me that a win over Toccoa Falls is worth more than one over Upstate. For that matter, a loss to USC-U is probably better than awin over Toccoa Falls.

Wofford's OOC home slate this season is an outright joke and I hold RJ and MY personally responsible. Not a single D-I tem outside of the SoCon is coming to Benjamin Johnson Arena this year and that is unacceptable no matter what excuses they provide. If this year's schedule can not be improved upon, then those responsible bneed to be removed/reassigned no matter how long they have been here or how classy they are. No credible D-I program can operate this way.

Lastly, I like the idea of a Sparkle City Classic as outlined in this article. Wofford's facilities could easily host it, fans would probably get into it, and we might even create a few more Wofford fans to help us improve on the 237 that showed up to see Toccoa Falls.

For those "in the know" more than I am, is there something more to this topic? Is there some kind of ill will or past problems that aren't being brought to light? It's just curious that we are willing to play them in in some sports and not in others.
SoCon Champs '03, '07, '10, '12, '17
FCS Playoffs '03, '07, '08, '10, '11, '12, '16, '17
FCS Semifinals '03
D-II Playoffs '90, '91
NAIA Finals '70
SC Little 4 Champs '48, '49, '50, '51, '52, '54, '56, '57, '61, '62, '63, '64
Cigar Bowl Participant '50
User avatar
Eyes of Old Main
True Terrier Fan
 
Posts: 2814
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:20 pm
Location: 507 Miles from Wofford

Postby Rowdy on Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:39 pm

Eyes of Old Main wrote:
Lastly, I like the idea of a Sparkle City Classic as outlined in this article. Wofford's facilities could easily host it, fans would probably get into it, and we might even create a few more Wofford fans to help us improve on the 237 that showed up to see Toccoa Falls.


I can agree with many of your points, but let's not bring SHS onto campus any more than we have to. The 5 or 6 football games they play on campus is plenty.
Rowdy
 

Postby Ruckus on Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:57 pm

I find a direct correlation between the arguments expressed in the article (and the post by Eyes) and the ongoing thread in the football forum re scheduling. I personally feel like that we do need a few "winnable" games before we enter conference play. In fact I think some of our past problems with injuries to key players have come as a result of playing D-1 teams and a tough non-conference schedule on the road before Christmas.
In addition, Mr. Boynton (and others) may not have been around in the '80s to witness the bad blood between USC-S and Wofford. RJ had a tough personal history with them as a coach and I can tell you as a former baseball player they were "persona non grata" with us as well. In the mid-80s, former Wofford basbeall coach Dorrity left to lead them and the 2 teams did not like each other depsite playing in the same conference and in several midseason tournaments held at Duncan Park with other local schools. I am sure the current admin won't admit it publicly but I would be surprised if this isn't behind some of this.
Plus, what is to gain other than to satisfy the curiousity of some people? USC-S has virtually no academic stds, sufficient money to recruit well (they've always had good teams in the past), and no real standing in the D-1 basketball world other than being located 5 miles from Wofford in S'burg. They aren't but 33 miles away from Furman too but you don't hear anyone wailing about FU not scheduling them. If Wofford plays and wins, everyone says we should and the win means nothing; and if we don't, then we give a crosstown potential rival the benefit of winning (just like PC). I don't really think it's about us being scared of losing because I would expect us to win. I think it's more about giving the benefit to a school and administration that has not in the past been very friendly to us. I do agree however that we need to schedule better home games but I think can do that without throwing USC-S a bone with nothing in return to us.
Ruckus
True Terrier Fan
 
Posts: 6326
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:12 pm
Location: God's Country

Postby terrierbob on Sat Feb 09, 2008 6:17 pm

Ruckus wrote:I find a direct correlation between the arguments expressed in the article (and the post by Eyes) and the ongoing thread in the football forum re scheduling. I personally feel like that we do need a few "winnable" games before we enter conference play. In fact I think some of our past problems with injuries to key players have come as a result of playing D-1 teams and a tough non-conference schedule on the road before Christmas.
In addition, Mr. Boynton (and others) may not have been around in the '80s to witness the bad blood between USC-S and Wofford. RJ had a tough personal history with them as a coach and I can tell you as a former baseball player they were "persona non grata" with us as well. In the mid-80s, former Wofford basbeall coach Dorrity left to lead them and the 2 teams did not like each other depsite playing in the same conference and in several midseason tournaments held at Duncan Park with other local schools. I am sure the current admin won't admit it publicly but I would be surprised if this isn't behind some of this.
Plus, what is to gain other than to satisfy the curiousity of some people? USC-S has virtually no academic stds, sufficient money to recruit well (they've always had good teams in the past), and no real standing in the D-1 basketball world other than being located 5 miles from Wofford in S'burg. They aren't but 33 miles away from Furman too but you don't hear anyone wailing about FU not scheduling them. If Wofford plays and wins, everyone says we should and the win means nothing; and if we don't, then we give a crosstown potential rival the benefit of winning (just like PC). I don't really think it's about us being scared of losing because I would expect us to win. I think it's more about giving the benefit to a school and administration that has not in the past been very friendly to us. I do agree however that we need to schedule better home games but I think can do that without throwing USC-S a bone with nothing in return to us.


Ruckus, I'm certainly not as familiar with past history as you. However, there's something to be said for burying a decades-old hatchet. It would give us a great crowd, AND I think it would lesses the gown and town barrier.
terrierbob
 

Postby NCTerrier on Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:02 pm

Besides RJ, who at either school was there during the bad blood days of the 80s? I know USCU's coach was not there, and I can't be certain, but I do not think their AD was there either. Was MY an assistant then?

The RPI excuse is lame. I hope RJ's comments there were taken out of context, because that is just plain silly. The games against Lee-McRae, Va. Wise, WV Wesleyan and Toccoa Falls do not even count toward our RPI or SOS, so playing those teams does no one in the SoCon any good. As was said before, LOSING to any DI team could boost our RPI as opposed to playing sub-DI competition and getting nothing.

I think it is ridiculous not to play for whatever reason, athletically, academically or sore feelings. What are the academic requirements at Taccoa Falls or Virginia Wise? South Carolina lowered its standards for football recruits this year. Does that mean we should not play them in football?

A game against USCU would fill the building to overflow and make us some money. And everybody here agrees that funding as a big issue with Wofford athletics. We're OK to get slaughtered by Wisconsin to fill the coffer, why not take a big check for a home game for a change. Got to be better than 200 seeing us play some community college. And when we go there, the travel expenses would be nil, meaning more money for other things. I just don't see how this isn't win-win for everyone, including the city and the fans.

I agree though that SHS needs to left out of the equation. How about an old-fashioned doubleheader with the men's and the women's teams?
NCTerrier
 

Postby Ruckus on Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:47 pm

Rj's comments were that we needed balance in our schedule, i.e. for every Wisconsin, Alabama and bigger D-1 schools we need some easier games before conference play. I agree it would be great to play a bunch of D-1 tough teams with home games. But many of us on this board are already concerned about our lack of conference wins, injuries, and overall state of the program. Try putting 5 or 6 tougher games on there and see where that gets us. More losses in all likelihood, more injuries, less playing time for younger and less experienced players, more fatigue for our starters, and less confidence heading into SoCon play.
A USCS game may generate a big crowd but other than that it gets us nothing. I understand your point; just don't agree. We have absolutely nothing to gain from playing them and they have everything to gain. I say thanks but no thanks.
BTW - MY was not there in the eighties. I have no idea about their staff and could care less. I say to h*ll with 'em.
Ruckus
True Terrier Fan
 
Posts: 6326
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:12 pm
Location: God's Country

Postby BossTerrier on Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:52 pm

I say we give them what they want-let's play them and beat the ever living Hxll out of them so they will carry their happy A$$es back to the other side of Hearon Circle with a loss and a tube of Preparation H, and never make such a stupid, arrogant request again.

And to those USCS fans that look to our loss to them in Tennis for encouragement, let me assure them: Basketball ain't tennis-

Better yet, I say agree to play them in a football/basketball home and home-oh yeah, they are another one of those state supported alphabet schools that doesn't have the financial constraints of funding both major programs.

Proud to see we took care of UNCG twice this year despite the significant advantange they have in funding their program.
BossTerrier
 

Postby NCTerrier on Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:07 pm

We are on the opposite side of those 'we have nothing to win and everything to lose games' when we take on Arkansas, Alabama and Wisconsin. I don't hear anyone here complaining when we get that check and the roles are reversed, so let's no be hypocrites about that.

I am not advocating a OOC full of top 25 schools, just one lousy game against a DI program that is a 3-point shot away. That seems very logical to me. Besides, do we really get better by beating Taccoa Falls? I think to get better, you need to challenge yourself. Again, I do not mean this to say we have to play every ACC team we can fit on the schedule. But certainly, we can raise the bar a bit higher than the Virginia Wises of the world.
NCTerrier
 

Postby Ruckus on Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:57 am

Resting your starters, playing your subs, and getting some confidence is "getting better" in my book, especially coming off the road against D-1 competition. Is Toccoa and V-W equal cometititon to a PC or USCS? No, but let's face it: if we wanted to, we could put together a schedule that played nothting but top competition in D-1 basketball. But obviously MY feels we get some benefit out of those games or otherwise he wouldn't do it. I have heard he was not real excited initially to be playing Wisconsin on the road.
Ruckus
True Terrier Fan
 
Posts: 6326
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:12 pm
Location: God's Country

Postby dude on Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:33 am

I would not agree that schools like Wisconsin and Arkansas are in an "nothing to win, everything to lose" situation when playing schools such as Wofford. Those are tune-up games for them in the same way that Toccoa Falls is a tune-up game for us (though I'm not sure the talent difference is as great when we play the big schools). Top 40 type programs like to have a few games that aren't as intense for them. Of course, if the smaller teams comes in and wins (like Wofford vs. Purdue), then it's another matter. But if the big program gets their 20-point win as expected, then the game is worthwhile for them.

I don't think that a Wofford-USCUpstate game is the same thing at all. Not saying we should or shouldn't do it. But I think it's worth examining the upside for Wofford.
dude
True Terrier Fan
 
Posts: 659
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:08 pm

Postby NCTerrier on Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:22 pm

I do not believe that beating a non-NCAA team by 50 points makes anyone better, rest-, experience- or confidence-wise. Add in a crowd of 237 and that game costs us money to play. Once again, everyone complains about how underfunded the program is, yet are OK throwing cash away on a 50-point victory every year. Realize that men's basketball IS a revenue sport. We have to look at our home schedule as a way to generate money as well as seeking those nice road checks. I have a hard time believing that we can't get a home-and-home with schools like Wilmington, UNCA, Campbell or maybe even an East Carolina - regional schools that area fans have actually heard of. Home games like that would certainly create more attendance that Taccoa Falls or Va. Wise.

Once again, I am not advocating a schedule completely void of cup cakes or an easy win or two, but having our entire OOC home slate full of non-Division I teams seems like a waste of resources to me
NCTerrier
 

Postby BossTerrier on Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:24 pm

Almost our entire conference plays these games. Here is a list of schools conf teams played this yr (excluding Wofford's competition):

Emory, Methodist, Va. Wise, Asbury, Fort Valley State, Erskine, Tusculum, Daniel Webster, Webber International, Atlanta Christian, Cornell College (IA), Covenant, PC*, NC Central*.

* Do not count as DI competition this yr

The only teams not to play a non-DI School:

CofC, UNCG, and Furman

Their OOC Record: 12-17

Apparantly you have to play these games as schedule fillers. I would suggest that we don't lose any more $$$ playing a home game against Toccoa Falls than we would to drive to James Madison.

I would love to play better competition at home, but the reality is that it's tough to schedule these series and it looks like the pre-christmas tournaments are the best opportunity to play some competitive games before conference play.

Now, as for USCS, I say let's play them and give them what they want.

UNCG beat them by almost 20 this yr.
BossTerrier
 

Postby BossTerrier on Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:28 pm

Almost our entire conference plays these games. Here is a list of schools conf teams played this yr (excluding Wofford's competition):

Emory, Methodist, Va. Wise, Asbury, Fort Valley State, Erskine, Tusculum, Daniel Webster, Webber International, Atlanta Christian, Cornell College (IA), Covenant, PC*, NC Central*.

* Do not count as DI competition this yr

The only teams not to play a non-DI School:

CofC, UNCG, and Furman

Their OOC Record: 12-17

Apparantly you have to play these games as schedule fillers. I would suggest that we don't lose any more $$$ playing a home game against Toccoa Falls than we would to drive to James Madison.

I would love to play better competition at home, but the reality is that it's tough to schedule these series and it looks like the pre-christmas tournaments are the best opportunity to play some competitive games before conference play.

Now, as for USCS, I say let's play them and give them what they want.

UNCG beat them by almost 20 this yr.
BossTerrier
 

Postby BossTerrier on Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:28 pm

Almost our entire conference plays these games. Here is a list of schools conf teams played this yr (excluding Wofford's competition):

Emory, Methodist, Va. Wise, Asbury, Fort Valley State, Erskine, Tusculum, Daniel Webster, Webber International, Atlanta Christian, Cornell College (IA), Covenant, PC*, NC Central*.

* Do not count as DI competition this yr

The only teams not to play a non-DI School:

CofC, UNCG, and Furman

Their OOC Record: 12-17

Apparantly you have to play these games as schedule fillers. I would suggest that we don't lose any more $$$ playing a home game against Toccoa Falls than we would to drive to James Madison.

I would love to play better competition at home, but the reality is that it's tough to schedule these series and it looks like the pre-christmas tournaments are the best opportunity to play some competitive games before conference play.

Now, as for USCS, I say let's play them and give them what they want.

UNCG beat them by almost 20 this yr.
BossTerrier
 

Next

Return to Men's Basketball

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron