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Postby dude on Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:20 am

My guess is that Davidson and maybe Furman can put an assistant coach on an airplane to visit a recruit anyplace on globe at any time. I would guess most SoCon schools also have 3 assistant coaches on a full salary.

As for facilities, I think BenJo could be a really good homecourt atmosphere, and is sometimes. It doesn't have loads of charm -- rickety and un-usable as it is, the old Andrews Field House has that classic "feel" to it. Nonetheless, our arena can get pretty loud at times.
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Postby Ruckus on Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:47 pm

If that was truly the case, how do we get 2 kids from L.A. (Gibson and Nixon), a kid from Minnesota (Dahlman), and a kid from Iowa (last year)? We DO need to get more money for scholies and budget but at some point need to expect some improvement. Sadly, we were more competitive in the SoCon 6 or 7 years ago.
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Postby Rowdy on Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:06 pm

Seems I remember Nixson and Gibson prepped on the East coast.
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Postby beacon_fan on Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:25 pm

Ruckus wrote:If that was truly the case, how do we get 2 kids from L.A. (Gibson and Nixon), a kid from Minnesota (Dahlman), and a kid from Iowa (last year)? We DO need to get more money for scholies and budget but at some point need to expect some improvement. Sadly, we were more competitive in the SoCon 6 or 7 years ago.


All these kids play in the Nike, Adidas, and AAU leagues during the summer and fall. They travel around the country and many of the big tournaments are here in the south. There is Bob Gibbons, Nike Peach Jam, Nike Grassroots, and another in Florida that I can't remember the name of. We can afford to send our coaches to these tournaments because it's driving distance and they get to see a whole bunch of kids play during a weekend. What we cannot afford to do (at least I don't think so) is send our coaches to these kids' high-schools to watch them play. Having a head/assistant coach show up for your high school game means a WHOLE lot more than at some AAU tournament and will definitely figure into their decision.

I agree with Rowdy in that we need to get the full number of scholarships and have at least an average Socon budget before we start pointing the finger at our staff. I personally think Mike does an above average job with the resources he is given.
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Postby Eyes of Old Main on Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:43 am

beacon_fan wrote:I agree with Rowdy in that we need to get the full number of scholarships and have at least an average Socon budget before we start pointing the finger at our staff. I personally think Mike does an above average job with the resources he is given.


I agree that funding is our biggest obstacle right now and I believe that Coach Young is both a good coach and great ambassador. I also believe we are getting a fair result considering our investment in the program.

My overall concern is our commitment to athletics in general. We don't let our disadvantages control our destiny in football and we shouldn't in other sports. Wofford is in the middle of a capital campaign to build the general endowment, but we see very little effort to build athletic endowments. The only way we will overcome this persistant money crunch is to seek large donations and corporate partners.

People make fun of Coastal Carolina's relationship with Hooter's, but I dare say they are much better for forging that alliance. I know our marketing staff is trying, but when good programs they put in place later get nixed (Lottery ticket trade in for discount football tickets) it is frustrating. We need to be looking for ways to bring people and money into Wofford athletics, not to push them away.
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Postby Jimbear on Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:00 pm

Questioning the Wofford's board and administration's commitment to athletics is absolutly crazy. For a school of our size to be playing D-1 is amazing, crazy and silly on so many levels. Yet is seems right. If it was not for the Panther's training camp it would have never happened at all. Most PBK colleges of our type play D-3, just not in our part of the country. Birmingham-Southern is now going down to D-3. The amount of funds that the college commits to athletics compared to the full budget is the largest of any other school.

We also need to remember that we have not been at the D-1 level very long. It is going to take time to build endowments, etc. And while the college is in a campaign, it certainly does not prevent any one from stepping foward and giving a gift to Athletics. If you want to endowment more athletic scholarships just do it. The school will be very happy for you to do so. The fact that Terrier Club gifts are even counted in the Annual Fund is very unique to most colleges. We are all in this together... and I think it is remarkable that we do what we do. We just all need to do as much as we can for the little college that means so much to each of us and has always been better BECAUSE of its small size and its commitment to excellence.
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Postby Eyes of Old Main on Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:25 pm

Jimbear wrote:Questioning the Wofford's board and administration's commitment to athletics is absolutly crazy.


Then I guess I'm certifiably crazy, Jimbear. I don't think our athletic administration is doing what it takes to be successful in ANY sport. Granted, we've been successful in football, but that is a product of having the perfect coaching staff of our program, not any kind of leadership. Aside from football, we are average at best and among the worst in the conference in most sports. Progress is being made, but painfully slowly.

My concern is that we don't seem to be committed to success in athletics the way we are in academics. Do you think for a minute that a profressor that was turning out results such as our soccer, basketball or baseball coaches have been would be retained year after year? I'm not advocating a turn to win at all costs tactics like Georgia Southern, but if you can't see the difference in the way we approach our athletics and the way Furman and Davidson approach theirs, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Bad luck or not, decades without winning seasons in sports would not be met with tales of what a good, classy guy the coach is at any other school, it would be met with a pink slip. Coaching searches would be truly national, not the "national" variety we've seen recently. When have you ever heard Furman or Davidson use the "Aw shucks, we sure are small and underfunded" excuse?

Coach Ayers doesn't let our football players dwell on why they can't win, he shows them how they can win. Unfortunately, he seems to be the only one in our athletics dpeartment that preaches that. Maybe when he retires he can serve as our AD for a while and set everything else in the right direction as he has football.
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Postby NCTerrier on Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:02 pm

I have to agree with Eyes here. Frankly, I am getting a little tired of the excuses. These have been the same excuses ever since we moved up to DI. I know it takes a while to build endowments, tradition and success, especially doing it the right way. And yes, we do face unique obstacles being who we are, which perhaps slows our growth, but that does not mean we should accept mediocrity every year. Can you honestly say of any sport, besides football, that there has been marked improvement on the field over the past five years? Six years? Seven?
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Postby dude on Sat Dec 08, 2007 7:30 pm

Eyes, you seem to be complaining that we don't have the same standard of excellence as Davidson, but you've also complained that they don't play football at our level. My guess is that their lack of a D1 football program frees up all sorts of resources for basketball and other sports.

And I do think resources matter. While our football staff obviously does a WONDERFUL job, they also have closer to the full allotment of scholarships than many other sports. I'm not speaking of men's basketball in particular, because I don't know, but I think we have some sports where we have about HALF the number of scholarships that our competitors have. Those schools are also paying more for assistant coaches. We have a number of assistant coaches working for literally almost free. Travel and recruiting budgets also have an impact (just because we may have a basketball player from California doesn't mean our coaches neessarily went there to scout him numerous times -- I would guess that Davidson can send assistant coaches wherever they want to recruit).

It's not to say we should ACCEPT long-term mediocrity in any sport or that we should expect our coaches always to field teams that play hard and compete. But to think that our resources aren't a very legitimate issue is off-base, in my opinion.
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Postby beacon_fan on Sat Dec 08, 2007 7:53 pm

Eyes of Old Main wrote:When have you ever heard Furman or Davidson use the "Aw shucks, we sure are small and underfunded" excuse?


are you serious? I don't know this past seasons numbers, but in 2006...

$1,349,522 Chattanooga (SOCON) Chattanooga, TN
$1,085,532 College of Charleston (SOCON) Charleston, SC
$1,082,246 Furman (SOCON) Greenville, SC
$1,036,838 Davidson (SOCON) Davidson, NC

$816,202 North Carolina-Greensboro (SOCON) Greensboro, NC
$778,133 The Citadel (SOCON) Charleston, SC
$729,965 Western Carolina (SOCON) Cullowhee, NC
$684,573 Georgia Southern (SOCON) Statesboro, GA
$626,546 Elon (SOCON) Elon College, NC
$605,817 Appalachian State (SOCON) Boone, NC
$279,505 Wofford (SOCON) Spartanburg, SC

They don't need to use those excuses because they are spending close to 4x the amount of money on mens basketball. I don't like hearing the excuses either, but when you look at the numbers, what do you honestly expect? We are dead last in spending, and the 2nd to last team (appy) is spending well over 2x what we are. I think that being picked 3rd (south division) pre-season is a great testament to just how well our coaching staff is doing with the resources we give them.
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Postby Eyes of Old Main on Sat Dec 08, 2007 8:00 pm

I do think that Davidson has an advantage from not playing scholarship football. So do UNC-Greensboro and College of Charleston. While that is part of my argument against Davidson remaining in the SoCon, I do acknowledge that Davidson is obviously less willing to accept the mediocrity that we seem to be embracing.

As for the lower scholarship levels, as I understand it, we've been adding 2-3 per year for the last few years in football. I think we are now in the low 50's. Perhaps that focus should be shifted to other sports for a while and get baseball, basketball, soccer, etc. up to more competitive levels before bringing football all the way up to the 63 maximum. I hate to pull focus from football, but things are obviously working there and obviously not working elsewhere.
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Postby mjtorg on Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:17 pm

Since we're talking about recruiting, has anyone thought about looking at Isiah Dahlman at Michigan State? Maybe Noah could talk his brother into sitting out a year and coming to Wofford. He's riding the bench there now and is about the 10th or 11th man.

He's the high school career high scorer from Minnesota and was Mr. Basketball at Minnesota. Don't think he's happy sitting and could be a possibility. :lol:
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Postby Rowdy on Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:04 pm

I just saw on the Wofford athletic site that the women's b-ball team lost to UNC-CH by 60 points (are we the Toccoa Falls on their schedule?). This is just my guess, but I figure the women's basketball program is fully funded due to title 9 and our male/female mix in the Wofford student population. I'm also guessing that all of the women's teams are fully funded. We haven't been competitive with any of these teams. Yet we B*t*h about the mens teams that have some degree of success when one looks at the funding we give them. Why no uproar about the women's teams?
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Postby Jimbear on Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:46 pm

Gentleman and good gentlewomen. I cerntainly did not mean that we should use being small as an excuse. I am just trying to point out the reality. If you compaired the athletic budgets to the size of the full institutional budgets my guess is you would see Wofford administration supports Athletics much more that any of the other schools. It is not like there is some magic pot of money just waiting for someone to pull the plug. We have made strides because individuals stepped up to help make it happen. Richardson in Football, AND other sports. The Richardship family scholarship is a model program and many years the receipent is not a football player but a player on another team. Dont forget Russell King and the Switzers in Baseball to bring it back on campus.

My point is Wofford is a non-proft and it you want to see something happen stop asking someone else to do it. Step up and put up the money yourself. A football alum (Ed Wyle) chairs the finance committee of the board of trustees and is truly committeed to making sure we get as much value as we can. Just stop compailing about the administration. And look at what else you can be doing...
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Postby WOCOWoman on Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:02 pm

Rowdy wrote:Yet we B*t*h about the mens teams that have some degree of success when one looks at the funding we give them. Why no uproar about the women's teams?


Ooh, ooh...me, me! I'll take this one. I HATE the tough road our women's basketball team has taken. I had very close friends on the team when I was a student, and they really did work so hard. I don't know what it will take to improve their chances for success, and I don't know how well-funded they are, but I do know something's gotta give. There is more to funding a program than scholarships. It was HORRIBLE when they had that nationally recognized record for straight losses a couple of years ago. Maybe they'll have a better season this year against conference opponents.

Don't worry, I'll reserve this for the women's basketball forum in the future. Just wanted to respond.
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