Mens Soccer Coach Resigns

Men's SoCon Regular Season Champs - 2009
Men's SoCon Tournament Champs - 2009
Men's SoCon Regulat Season Champs 2013

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Postby oldT-Dog on Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:39 pm

no need to publish detailed inequities of program on a public forum. Call Richard or I can email you offline for details.
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Postby Eyes of Old Main on Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:03 am

Wouldn't publishing the inequities shed light on some things?
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Postby Eyes of Old Main on Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:05 am

beacon_fan wrote: :-({|=


and Nero fiddled while Rome burned...
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Postby oldT-Dog on Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:24 am

NCAA max for athletic is 9.9. Soccer funding in SoCon is as follows (conference standing in '07):

9.9
Furman (1st)
College of Charleston (2nd)
UNCG (3rd)

8.5
Elon (4th)
GA S (7th)

7.5
App State (5th)

4.5
Wofford (8th)

*Unknown
Davidson (6th)

*-unknown bc of the way they fund, but Wofford lost out on all competitive recruits in Soccer w/ Davidson last year and is currently competing with 4.

There that feels much better
8)
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Postby NCTerrier on Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:23 pm

I was expecting it to be a lost less. 4.5 is not enough to stay competitive on a yearly basis, but with the right coach, it something to build on. I know it always seems to come back to football, but that program was and still is under funded when compared to the rest of the league but has MA has a solid program and we are catching up. I don't see why, with the right leadership, all our athletic programs can't follow the same model.
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Postby Rowdy on Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:34 pm

I don't see why, with the right leadership, all our athletic programs can't follow the same model.


A coach like Mike Ayers comes around once in a lifetime. Wofford is fortunate to have him. I just don't see every sport at the college getting that lucky.
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Postby NCTerrier on Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:49 pm

Very true, but that does not mean we can't look for someone of that mold. My main point was for us to be successful in any sport, we need good coaching, which I think is a given. I am not too familiar with the soccer program, but from what has been said here, the previous coach was not that good. So I wonder, why was he even hired in the first place when I am sure there are better coaches available. I know I make it sound so simplistic and it not that easy, but it seems to me that in other sports (besides football), we far too often settle. I think if the bar were raised, even just a bit, it would make a huge difference.
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Postby oldT-Dog on Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:37 pm

Don't get me wrong, I think Ayers does a great job with what he has, and I have no problem with the amount of funding that football gets as a revenue sport. However, there is really no comparison between football and soccer as far as funding. Football is not "maxed out" but it is far from under funded. Ayers can field offensive, defensive and special teams units and have them all on full rides. He also has enough left over for for a healthy amount of backups. When Wofford steps on the soccer field against every other team in the SoCon the same is not close to being true, especially when you add in the 4 or 5 players that come of the bench.

The SoCon was just rated the 6th best soccer conference in the country in D1. It has changed a lot since the Citadel and VMI left and Elon joined. I know the SoCon has great football, but remember this is D1, there is no 1-AA like in football.

The team was very competitive this year at 7-12-1. This was the best season they have had as far as # of wins since 1994. I believe prior to this year the record for shutouts in a goalkeepers career since going D1 was 2, the team had 6 shutouts this year.

I went to 4 games and they were in all of them winning one, losing 2 by a goal and drawing one. They were 4 minutes from beating USC in Columbia and lost in the second OT 2-1. There playoff game with Furman was also very competitive. Most of the match took place in the midfield with both teams having very few chances. They lost 2-0 with the second goal coming in the last minute bc they pushed everyone up for a corner kick.

Again, I understand that Kern was not liked by some alumni and the transition when he came in was tough, but all of this talk of finding "the right coach" is nonsense. It is not a popularity contest and he was moving the team in the right direction with the very limited resources he had as far as scholarship money, not to mention a meager operating budget and salary.

I'm not sure why there are previous posts about Kern not being able to recruit but Taylor (goalkeeper) is very good. With Kern's help, Haskins Howerton has become one of the best center backs in the conference. Kentrel Owens was highly touted and had a great Freshman year and Armin Kinigadner was a steal.

Lets get real 4.5 is pitiful. Furthermore, it was 4.5 when Kern got there and 4.5 when he left so there is no "building" going on. The Soccer Letterman's endowed scholarship has been in place since 1989 and the balance is approx. $50,000, also pitiful (it takes about $700,000 to fully fund). If we want to see more success we have to start contributing directly to the program because we Love Wofford Soccer, regardless of who is coaching and the administration has to show more support than mere toleration.
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Postby Jimbear on Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:49 pm

This is all really helpful. The issues are always much more complicated that what we see on the surface. While money will not solve everything, not having enough creates alot of issues. While I was not an athlete at Wofford, I know that the Wofford experience can be great for anyone who embrasses it. Darn, less pizza for me, I am going to increase my Terrier club contribution. That is the very best way for us all to help. SEND MORE MONEY. Wofford does a great job of spending it very wisely. And remember kids, win or not, are given the chance to get a great education.
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Postby NCTerrier on Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:57 pm

Thanks for the enlightenment. I was not aware of the state of the soccer program. Any insight on who we are looking at to take over as coach and/or if there are plans to ramp up the spending here?
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Postby Rowdy on Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:30 pm

I went to 4 games and they were in all of them winning one, losing 2 by a goal and drawing one.


My guess is you were among, perhaps, a number of fans you could have counted on one or two hands at the most. Correct me if I'm wrong because I've never gone to a soccer game, male or female, Wofford or otherwise. And I have no plans to go to one. Don't even understand the sport. But, is this a game anyone cares about? I mean, does anyone care enough about it to fill a couple of seats? We've got limited resources at Wofford. Put the money where it counts ........ football and mens basketball!

If you had one or two additional scholarships next year, where would you put them? I'd put them in football. Maximum return for the money. 8500 fans at Gibbs Stadium Sat. night. My guess it would take 100 soccer games to garner 8500 fans?????????????????
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Postby oldT-Dog on Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:47 pm

I can only hope the terms when hiring a new coach will be negotiated as such that there is an increase in the soccer budget.

I loved my Wofford experience and would not trade it for anything. However, the reality was when I was there in the 80's and still is today that if you play a non-revenue sport, meaning anything other than football and basketball, you are going to be under funded unless alumni get directly involved.

The golf program was fully funded directly by an alumni. The baseball program has seen greater growth because of the direct involvement of baseball alumni and greater support by the administration.

Direct involvement = targeting giving to the directly to the specific sport.

Football and basketball receive the majority of the Terrier Club budget, as they should, because they can bring in money to the college. The football team can travel to NC State and pick up a check for $300-$500k. The same is true on a smaller scale for the basketball team.

However, when it comes to giving the difference is this:

If I am a football or basketball alumni, I can give to the Terrier Club and know that a large portion of my check is going directly to the sport I played (which is most likely what I want to happen), and I can feel good about the fact that I have given, all be it a much smaller portion, to all sports.

The same is not true if I am a soccer alumni or that of any other non-revenue sport. If I give to the Terrier Club a very small portion goes to the sport I played and a much larger portion goes to the revenue earning sports.

I am not saying the formula is wrong but alumni of non-revenue sports have to be very aware of this formula when giving. If you think you are going to make an impact on the non-rev. sport you played by giving to the Terrier Club only you are wrong.

Personally I give to both the Terrier Club and directly to soccer. This way I am able to make a greater impact on the sport I have a personal interest in just like the football or basketball alumni does by giving only to the Terrier Club.
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Postby dude on Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:18 am

Rowdy -- I'm not much of a soccer fan, either. But I do think a case can be made regarding the importance of successful teams in the "non-revenue" sports or whatever the term is.

For one thing, these programs do represent the college. It may not be like football or men's basketball, but if we have a bunch of teams that aren't competitive, it doesn't reflect well on the school, as I see it -- especially if there's a prevailing notion that the college doesn't care about those sports and isn't supporting them. Further, this could breed resentment within the athletics community, and I think that would be unhealthy for all the sports.

Also, I think the kids who come to Wofford to play sports deserve the opportunity to win, to at least be on competitive teams. That means resources for scholarships and coaches. I think our athletics program is working on all that.
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Postby oldT-Dog on Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:34 am

Rowdy wrote:My guess is you were among, perhaps, a number of fans you could have counted on one or two hands at the most.


I'm hoping you were exaggerating, but not sure so my guess is as follows: Ga State game in Atlanta drew maybe 500. Games I saw at Wofford maybe 100-200. Furman playoff game maybe 600-700.

However, remember the team was 7-12-1. I was around during the Rick Gilstrap years and football was not drawing enough to fill half of Snyder Field. It's all relative, soccer at Wofford will never be as big as football. There are many reasons why one being every year football produces approx 20 new alumni (new Terrier Club members), this year soccer produced 3 new alumni.

Rowdy wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong because I've never gone to a soccer game, male or female, Wofford or otherwise. And I have no plans to go to one. Don't even understand the sport. But, is this a game anyone cares about? I mean, does anyone care enough about it to fill a couple of seats?


The sport is not that hard to understand. Kind of like hockey, just a ball instead of sticks and a puck. But there are a lot of people who "care". As far as growth, here are the numbers I could find:

Sport Participation by year in the U.S. (in thousands)

Baseball 1987-15,098, 2003-10,885, 16 yr. change -2.1

Basketball 1987-35,737, 2003-35,439 16 yr. change -0.8

Football 1987-20,292, 2003-14,119, 16 yr. change -30.4

Soccer 1987-15,388, 2003-17,679, 16 yr. change +14.9

Sources: Sporting Goods Manufacturers Association (SGMA) Annual Survey 2004 (www.SGMA.com), U.S. Soccer Federation, Chicago, U.S. National Soccer Players Association, World Almanach for Kids, Wikipedia.

Clemson and Carolina consistently draw 3,000-5,000 at Men's games. Fox Soccer Channel broadcasts a college game of the week on Friday nights and this year there were a couple of SoCon teams that played. Furman charged $5 a seat at the playoff game. Furman also has 2 very recent alumni playing professionally (one in the English Premiere League) and a player form this years team has just been selected to the US National U-23 team. These are the type of alumni that bring publicity to the program on a national scale and create the necessary funding environment. So it is not out of the realm of possibility that a successful Wofford program while not making money could certainly offset a great deal of costs and generate some very positive PR for the college.

Rowdy wrote:We've got limited resources at Wofford. Put the money where it counts ........ football and mens basketball! If you had one or two additional scholarships next year, where would you put them? I'd put them in football. Maximum return for the money. 8500 fans at Gibbs Stadium Sat. night. My guess it would take 100 soccer games to garner 8500 fans?????????????????


Why? So we can win the SoCon and compete for a National Championship and get on television? Oh wait we just did that. With this mentality, we may as well just take all the money and give it to football and field the teams in the other sports to meet NCAA requirements but just let them all get drummed every time they step on the field. Ideally as "dude" pointed out we care about the success of the entire athletic program.

Furthermore, the point is Wofford is about taking high quality young men and women with a great deal of potential and helping them reach that potential. The demographics of youth soccer fit quite nicely with this mission so it is about more than filling seats on Saturday.
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Postby MarleyDogg on Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:11 pm

How cool was it that the only US player to score a goal in the 2006 World Cup was a Furman grad. I know that impressed me, although I wish we could manage more than one goal! That was defintiely great PR for them and their entire athletic program.
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