Loss

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Loss

Postby fgs44 on Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:22 am

As a longtime Terrier fan and former player that loss hurt badly for several reasons:
1- We had dominated in every game this year, regardless of the score, in implementing our will on the opposition.
2- We have a new coaching staff that looked as if we were getting our players buy into the new culture without missing a beat. Something that is very hard to do.
3- My personal expectations were extraordinarily high. I anticipated an uninterrupted run through the SoCon, and very deep play-off run, if not the complete package.

I remember the same feeling back in the day, when we were ranked number 3 in small college football rankings, and went to PC and stunk up the joint.

However, we are back down to earth today, and we are going to learn from this and move on to what I believe will be a very successful season. Our coaching staff is very, very good; and very, very young with the exception of our offensive coordinator. Everyone is going to learn from this and come back stronger, smarter, and better. I have no doubt!!!!!

That game is now in the rear view mirror, and East Tennessee is the next game up---
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Re: Loss

Postby woffordgrad94 on Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:43 am

It hurt mostly because it was FURMAN! Our rivals, who will now get to crow for a year (unless win win a playoff game against them) and run their big mouths...while we have to EAT crow. They told us why they thought they would win and we scoffed at it all. It turns out they knew what they were talking about and we look like fools for laughing at them and chiding them. They said they were going to kick our butts and then they went out and did it, simple as that. And it just...sucks.
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Re: Loss

Postby lawdog on Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:56 am

Deep breaths. Furman is talented and well coached, and always tough at home.

Add to that, beating a good team five times in a row is really hard to do.
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Re: Loss

Postby boulder3m on Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:08 pm

One other perhaps overlooked item is that the game yesterday was probably Furman fighting for its football life this season. If they lose that game it is probably over for them. We didn't rise to the occasion and I hope we learned from it. Right now we don't know how good our team really is. Each of the next few weeks will help in that determination. Some act as if getting knocked on your butt is the end of the world, while others scramble to get up and keep fighting. Which are we?
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Re: Loss

Postby gofurman on Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:56 pm

As a Furman fan I want to say there is no bragging from me. You all are good. Maybe not top 5 good- but good. I am not a Wofford fan but I admit football is much about matchups - We defend the option well w Chad Staggs from Charleston Southern and Clay Hendrix coming back to FU from Air Force. Like your man Fisher DeBerry (sp?) there is a reason Air Force took Hendrix from us. He knows what he is doing as last year showed. He took a 3 win team.. took the same guys and won 8 games and made the playoffs - until you whooped us :oops: in the second round. Staggs from CSU played Citadel etc every year in Big South. We wanted him - I hope he stays

I HOPE Hendrix he is the right man for the job. I THINK he is. Stats certainly favor him. Something like 14 of our 15 playoff appearances involved him as a player or coach of our OL. That's sick. Then he leaves in 06? and we make the playoffs ONCE without him over the next decade.. LOL - coincidence? I think not. The one concern I have for my guys is Cronic was our OC he brought in last year and it took us a little while to find ANY offense this year but Quarles was the "co-OC" whatever that means. But now I feel better, it appears we were hamstrung by not having our QB and having to play a true freshman w none of the playbook v Elon. we had 7 points. Seven - in garbage time. Elon was laughing at us. Then Roberts gets moderately healthy and we score 27, 44, and 34 vs ETSU, WCU and you guys respectively. Western does not have a defense I admit. Turns out (takes til October to figure these things) ETSU does have a good D. And you guys do too. So now i feel better about Quarles. Takes time for coaches to get used to new jobs - and that's what I wanted to say. You guys have new coaches etc. And have hit the ground running

You guys are young on offense and we are too - I was shocked to learn that NEITHER team has a Senior on teh OL. both teams could return their entire OL next year. wow. You all have a few more seniors on D. We have 3 or 4.. I think you play 5-7 seniors there. Point is you have two good teams that are young. Someone said Western entire OL is all Seniors. That does not bode well for next year. Sammy will lose a lot next year too.

Anyway, the SoCon is a ? mark. I fear we will lose to Samford bv we have no pass D... You guys are probably looking at the same thing after we threw to our backs slipping out of the backfield a good bit. We both have things to work on. Samford could light us up.

It's just one loss - the key is do they learn from it
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Re: Loss

Postby WocoSix on Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:23 pm

GoFurman I do believe the FU staff had the benefit of 2 weeks to prepare for us. And they did a great job of it. But Saturday was Staggs first time really stopping Wofford, I wouldn't go crowning him the Wofford killer. At CSU Lorenzo Long rushed for almost 100 yards, Playoff Wofford had almost two 100 yard backs in McAfee and Stoddard, and in game one 2017 we had four +50 yard rushers. Is Wofford a top 5 team … Yes! Did we have a bad showing ...yes! Can we still win the SoCon … Yes!

Do I see FU as a top 5 … No! Will FU win the SoCon...No! If FU meets WoCo in a playoff rematch would we have the same outcome...No!

Not a knock on FU and not trying to throw shade on your win but somedays ... the gazelle gets the best of the lion. FU had some nice trick plays and schemes but I don't think they have the personnel to win out against their remaining schedule. With a loss to ETSU already and the meat of the SoCon left to play I can see at least 2 more losses and a possible 3rd vs Mercer to end the year. Meanwhile for Wofford the ETSU game has become the biggest game and would put us in the drivers seat once again with a win. Beat ETSU and I am sure we can win at least 2 of the remaining with Samford, Mercer, and WCU to share SoCon title.
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Re: Loss

Postby lawdog on Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:58 pm

+1.
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Re: Loss

Postby youngterrier on Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:07 pm

I don't think we are a top 5 team.
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Re: Loss

Postby WocoSix on Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:27 pm

YT you would have a hard time finding better. Outside of NDSU, JMU, and maybe E Washington ... I think we can hold our own in a playoff game against anyone in the FCS nation
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Re: Loss

Postby youngterrier on Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:59 pm

Well there's a difference between holding our own and winning. To say we are top 5 is to say we are worthy of a semifinal spot. Color me skeptical. Top 5 teams don't lose by 20 or play like we did on defense Saturday.

On top of that, we are 1-7 against MVFC and CAA teams all-time. We have no reason to think we are so much better than the SoCon after the shellacking we just took.
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Re: Loss

Postby WocoSix on Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:45 am

Again YT, outside of the 3 I named what other teams do you think are not "winnable"?

Kennesaw, Jax St, Elon, McNeese, Elon, Nichols, Rhode Island, etc are all winnable games and teams we are on par with. One loss to a conference and bitter rival does not disqualify or invalidate the programs work over the last 3 years. Not trying to convince you, but each man has his own perception. I just happen to still see the jar half full.
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Re: Loss

Postby walliver on Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:46 am

youngterrier wrote:Well there's a difference between holding our own and winning. To say we are top 5 is to say we are worthy of a semifinal spot. Color me skeptical. Top 5 teams don't lose by 20 or play like we did on defense Saturday.

On top of that, we are 1-7 against MVFC and CAA teams all-time. We have no reason to think we are so much better than the SoCon after the shellacking we just took.


Tell that to Georgia ;)

We obviously weren't Top 5 on Saturday, but have a good chance to get back in the Top 10 and pick up a seed by the end of the year - that requires winning out, but is achievable. Samford worries me down the road, but I am always worried about the next game, too.

We beat WKU in 2003 when they were defending National Champs. The MVFC was named the Gateway Conference at the time, but it is still the same conference, so our record is really 2-7. Of the 7 losses, only 2 were bad losses: Last years fiasco in Fargo and a loss to Youngstown State in our first year of 1-AA. Some of the other games were heartbreakers: A questionable spot at JMU, giving Northern Iowa a free touchdown (really 2 freebies), a botched punt against Richmond, and double overtime against Youngstown. In addition, there were two dubious coaching decisions: not playing Zollman in the second half at Delaware and not giving the ball to the best running back in WoCo history on 4th down at NDSU. Yes, FU's playoff resume looks better with three trips to the National Championship game and one win, but two of those were a long time ago and the FCS landscape is a lot different now.

Grouping the MVFC and CAA together while excluding the Big Sky gives you a neat spin, but we are actually 1-2 against the CAA and 1-0 against the Big Sky (back when beating Montana was a really big deal). We are actually 1-0 against the Gateway/MVFC at home, and 1-1 against the CAA at home. I personally would like to see a few CAA teams on our schedules in the future (especially Richmond or W&M). I doubt we will get the respect we desire when our scheduling philosophy seems to be beating two Big South teams and going 6-2 or better in the SoCon. It has been an effective strategy, but doesn't impress many people.
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Re: Loss

Postby youngterrier on Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:19 pm

walliver wrote:
youngterrier wrote:Well there's a difference between holding our own and winning. To say we are top 5 is to say we are worthy of a semifinal spot. Color me skeptical. Top 5 teams don't lose by 20 or play like we did on defense Saturday.

On top of that, we are 1-7 against MVFC and CAA teams all-time. We have no reason to think we are so much better than the SoCon after the shellacking we just took.


Tell that to Georgia ;)

We obviously weren't Top 5 on Saturday, but have a good chance to get back in the Top 10 and pick up a seed by the end of the year - that requires winning out, but is achievable. Samford worries me down the road, but I am always worried about the next game, too.

We beat WKU in 2003 when they were defending National Champs. The MVFC was named the Gateway Conference at the time, but it is still the same conference, so our record is really 2-7. Of the 7 losses, only 2 were bad losses: Last years fiasco in Fargo and a loss to Youngstown State in our first year of 1-AA. Some of the other games were heartbreakers: A questionable spot at JMU, giving Northern Iowa a free touchdown (really 2 freebies), a botched punt against Richmond, and double overtime against Youngstown. In addition, there were two dubious coaching decisions: not playing Zollman in the second half at Delaware and not giving the ball to the best running back in WoCo history on 4th down at NDSU. Yes, FU's playoff resume looks better with three trips to the National Championship game and one win, but two of those were a long time ago and the FCS landscape is a lot different now.

Grouping the MVFC and CAA together while excluding the Big Sky gives you a neat spin, but we are actually 1-2 against the CAA and 1-0 against the Big Sky (back when beating Montana was a really big deal). We are actually 1-0 against the Gateway/MVFC at home, and 1-1 against the CAA at home. I personally would like to see a few CAA teams on our schedules in the future (especially Richmond or W&M). I doubt we will get the respect we desire when our scheduling philosophy seems to be beating two Big South teams and going 6-2 or better in the SoCon. It has been an effective strategy, but doesn't impress many people.


The stats I'm citing are playoff stats. My football memory almost literally doesn't extend past 2003. Only pre-2003 game I remember is the mud bowl (and even flashes of 2003-2006 are sketchy). We've only played one CAA team since 2008 (which is a travesty in itself), beating New Hampshire in 2012. We shut out their amazing offense. I think we would do better against the contemporary CAA (the Richmond team we lost to was a year removed from winning the championship!), but my general point is you can't in one breath say we're a top team and then in another make excuses for why we haven't advanced past a certain point because other teams are just great that year too (does that make sense?). It's one thing if it happens one year, but when it keeps happening, it's a trend. I wouldn't call these statistics dubious. We haven't played enough Big Sky teams to generalize a trend, so I don't really count them. One game is not a trend, it's just one data point.

We got to the semifinals one year, but we've been stuck in the quarterfinals (which I will take over not making the field at all!) for pretty much every year. We have gotten some tough draws in terms of first round games (Montana, JMU) and if I'm honest, I think if NDSU was not playing FCS football, I think the FCS in general would be more competitive, with it being possible that we'd make the semifinals either in 2012 or 2017 (but our offense, sans EB, had no business being in the semis in 2012).

And I'm not saying this to say "woe is we," to throw shade at the option, to say "fire all the coaches," or any other hyperbolic talk that gets thrown around on these boards. If you look at where we stand nationally in FCS, especially considering we've only been competitive for the last ~16 years and at the level since 1996ish (we've only been here for 55% of the subdivision's existence!), we are objectively a top 20 program by measure of conference championships, playoff appearances, and playoff wins. We are a good team and a good program and should be proud of that.

I'm just a little concerned because we can't seem to get it done against good teams. We kind of fool ourselves into thinking we're top 5, when we're really top 15, and that make a huge difference. We'd like to think we're up there with North Dakota State and James Madison, but right now we're closer to Sam Houston State, UNI, and Jacksonville State: good yet flawed teams that make the playoffs and even win a game or two, but folds against these better teams or just can't get the job done.

That's not to say this is an unsolvable problem or that it will never be fixed. App State had this problem and then they suddenly won 3 national titles and propelled themselves to the FBS (that last part won't happen to us). I have confidence in the coaching staff (even Coach Lang, who I'm critical of) that this will be fixed, if not this year than years to come. But we can't make the necessary improvements until we're honest with ourselves about how good we are, because as talented and deep as we are, we aren't yet good enough to mess around with any socon team for 3 quarters and expect to win.

We just aren't. App State and GSU were at their peak, and many times they lost a game by a score because of it. But we are nowhere near that. We're lucky they moved up to FBS before Satterfield was hired at App State and Georgia Southern moved up as well. Had they not, NDSU probably doesn't win as many national titles in a row as they have. We don't really appreciate how great the best teams are in this subdivision are. We aren't there yet. We could be soon, but we aren't there yet
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Re: Loss

Postby WocoSix on Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:55 pm

Wofford dropped from tied 6th place with JMU to 12th Right behind Elon. Furman still received no votes for top 25.

1North Dakota St. (26)
2Kennesaw St.
3South Dakota St.
4Jacksonville St.
5James Madison
6McNeese
7Illinois St.
8Eastern Washington
9Weber St.
10Sam Houston St.
11Elon
12Wofford
13Colgate
14Towson
15Central Arkansas
16UC Davis
17Stony Brook
18t North Carolina A&T
18t Princeton
20Maine
21East Tennessee St.
22Nicholls
23Rhode Island
24Dartmouth
25Delaware

Dropped Out: Montana (23), Villanova (25)
Others Receiving Votes: North Dakota, 37; Northern Iowa, 15; Montana St., 13; Idaho St., 12; Florida A&M, 11; Chattanooga ,8; Missouri St., 8; Montana, 4; Northern Arizona, 2; Villanova, 2; South Dakota, 1
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Re: Loss

Postby boulder3m on Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:29 pm

The Stats poll is fairly similar. Kennesaw St has one quality win over Samford and a loss to Ga St. The win over Samford will probably turn out to be a pretty good one. Jax St sure it ranked pretty high considering that A&T beat them at Jx St. Like KSU, JSt doesn't have much competition in their conference, whereas we still don't know who will climb out of the SoCon pile. I think NDSt, SDSt and JMU are probably WAY ahead of the rest.
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