2019 season - preseason

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Re: 2019 season - preseason

Postby youngterrier on Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:58 am

It seems in this thread that we have defined "option" so broadly that it has no meaning.

Again, if you actually look at the statistics to some of these teams you're referencing, they don't match the narrative you're pushing. A quick look at the 2005 Furman team that was really good (The Ingle Martin teams you're referencing). They threw the ball over 20 times a game. http://www.furmanpaladins.com/sports/m- ... m#TEAM.IND

As for Sam Houston State, since they changed coaching staff from Fritz to Keeler, it is true that they have run the ball for less yardage, but they've compensated for it with a better passing game. It's not like they've totally fallen off the face of the earth with this change. They've gotten to the semifinals in 3 of the last 4 years. They also have always thrown the ball about 20 times a game.

As for Boise State, it is true that they ran the option a bit with Jared Zabransky (he had the second most rushes on the team), but again, they threw the ball more than 20 times a game, and they didn't run the option like we do. If you go further and check Kellen Moore's stats (when Boise went 50-3 in a 4 year span) they did not run the option.

No one is arguing that the option as a tactic or a play-call is bad or has no place in an FCS program. If you look at the history of the option at this level, teams have used it and other gimmicky offenses to put themselves on the map, only to transition out of it with continued success. Furman, Sam Houston State, and Delaware are great examples of this. There are probably more, I'm just knowledgeable enough. I think we are at the point where we can make a similar transition.

But the option as a strategy has a clear ceiling in 21st century. It limits your ability to move the ball fast and make important intermediate gains via the pass game. I'm a big fan of power run-first offenses that control the time of possession. But you don't need to be an option team to have that capability.
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Re: 2019 season - preseason

Postby youngterrier on Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:07 am

Ruckus28 wrote:So no team will ever win “big time football games” running the TO (other than GaSo)?
FU won NC in 1988 running it; played for NC again in 2002 or so running some TO (and if Louis Ivory wasn’t hurt would have won it). Navy and AFA win their share very single season against the “big boys” running it. Heck we were clearly the second beat team in the country in 2003 running it and was the first team EVER in the history of college football located east of the Miss. to go Montana and win. Beat JSU on the road in 2011. Took YSU eventual NC runner up to OT on the road (and if we hit a PAT or FG in 20 degree weather we win). I guess those weren’t “big time” enough for you.
Sounds like some of us have ODS (Option Derangement Syndrome).
And not one person has posted we don’t have talent or that we have to run the TO because we don’t have talent. What you are arguing is we CAN’T run it because we do have talent.
Ridiculous.
Some y’all better get Conklin and Lang on the phone and warn them of our impending doom running an option system because you are about to see yet again for another season.


I'm literally citing statistics about the teams you're citing as success stories. It's not derangement, it's looking at measurable facts. If the option as a system was systemically advantageous in comparison to other teams, it would be adopted by the top-tier teams. It isn't. It's generally known as an "equalizer" offense that compensates for less athleticism by using deception. But there are diminishing points of return for it because of the trade-offs. Being able to keep the score and possessions low and grind the clock is a great equalizing strategy if you're playing against superior competition, so much so that it's worth not being able to make those intermediate gains. But when you do have the athletes that can pass, pass protect, and catch you're leaving a lot off the table for the sake of that strategy.

You're citing the victories we made, but not the fact that we got shut down by Delaware, or shut down by NDSU (twice) or at multiple points in the last few seasons we couldn't score at the one yard line. Or that we've probably gotten blown out by top 10 teams more than we've been competitive.
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Re: 2019 season - preseason

Postby Ruckus28 on Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:45 pm

Here’s a great statistic you can research: we ARE a top tier team (or have been)......running the option no less. How did that happen with a second rate compensatory offense? I find it more than amusing that anyone has the brass to argue against that.
Football thankfully is not a science. It’s a sport. Research whatever statistics you like but here is a reputable fact: since 1988 (we actually ran the TO out of power sets from 1986-188) and we have had a LOT of success. Once again, scrapping what has worked is a dangerous proposition. Thankfully we will not (yet) so all of this is academic. You option haters will have to suffer through another horribly underperforming Wofford team.
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Re: 2019 season - preseason

Postby youngterrier on Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:53 pm

So, some of us are accused of "option derangement syndrome" and then we cite evidence for why we think moving away from the option is a good idea. And the response to that evidence is...discarding the concept of evidence all together. I see.


Wofford football is more than just the option thankfully.
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Re: 2019 season - preseason

Postby mudrat43 on Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:20 pm

This run/pass debate sure is getting interesting! Well, let me jump into it, please. It is my opinion that had the previous coach (and staff) been pass happy instead of run happy, they more than likely would have been just as successful over the years. They were (are) good coaches and able to direct their teams to execute their schemes. But forsaking one option for another, is not the best approach. Back in BS (before Spurrier), the SEC was a mostly run happy conference with only 3 teams (AL, AUB, LSU) in the hunt for national championships. After the "fun-n-gun" FL offense hit the field, things changed almost overnight. Now every SEC school in the conference can pass/run with anybody (well maybe not Vandy). The point being, just because a "this is what we do" attitude seems to permeate, I don't for a second believe that WOF is incapable of having a top tier passing game. Its a matter of will. That game against NDSU last season showed that WOF absolutely could not run the ball against that defense...not in the middle nor outside. A passing threat maybe could have helped. I'm desperately hoping for more passing this season (not just as a diversion) to put up more points. As "they" say, "innovate or die"! Go Terriers!
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Re: 2019 season - preseason

Postby T-Dog 4 on Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:46 pm

mudrat43 wrote:This run/pass debate sure is getting interesting! Well, let me jump into it, please. It is my opinion that had the previous coach (and staff) been pass happy instead of run happy, they more than likely would have been just as successful over the years. They were (are) good coaches and able to direct their teams to execute their schemes. But forsaking one option for another, is not the best approach. Back in BS (before Spurrier), the SEC was a mostly run happy conference with only 3 teams (AL, AUB, LSU) in the hunt for national championships. After the "fun-n-gun" FL offense hit the field, things changed almost overnight. Now every SEC school in the conference can pass/run with anybody (well maybe not Vandy). The point being, just because a "this is what we do" attitude seems to permeate, I don't for a second believe that WOF is incapable of having a top tier passing game. Its a matter of will. That game against NDSU last season showed that WOF absolutely could not run the ball against that defense...not in the middle nor outside. A passing threat maybe could have helped. I'm desperately hoping for more passing this season (not just as a diversion) to put up more points. As "they" say, "innovate or die"! Go Terriers!



I think a more balanced offense is a good thing, provided we have the personnel to do it well. Historically, we have recruited OL who are predominately run blockers. We crammed it down opponents throats until we couldn’t. The problems arose as people started defending us better and our play-calling became more predictable. Opponents started putting more guys in the box and daring us to throw, which we did with mixed results. The other issues with our option only mentality has been the inability to move the ball quickly, particularly when we got behind or at the end of a period. Part of that was poor clock management, but the other part is that we just were not built to do that. I don’t think anyone is naive enough to suggest we have the wherewithal to be a traditional pocket- passer/pro style offense, but if we have an OL that can give our QB/WR’s some more time, or throw some quick hitters, then perhaps we can use the pass a bit more to “keep them honest.” Personally, I’d much rather see a little more of that than sending the FB into the pile on 3rd and long for the 12th time. Time will tell.
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Re: 2019 season - preseason

Postby lawdog on Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:38 pm

Good to hear from you Mudrat.

We owe it to our players to give them the best chance to win under all conditions, including when the D has ganged up on us and stopped our run game. That does not mean that we switch to a pass-first mode, but rather that we have a reasonable repertoire of passing plays, and even "different" running plays, which we execute well when necessary. We did not have that when we were inside the NDSU five yard line twice with a great chance to win in the national semifinal a few years back; we need it now.
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Re: 2019 season - preseason

Postby youngterrier on Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:49 pm

I'd like to see Wofford make use of a tight end and a fullback as pro-set power I team, kind of like NDSU. Run the ball 60-70% of the time, and pass it efficiently when you do.

We're probably not doing that for personnel reasons (I think the OL point mudrat et all have pointed out is legitimate), but it's what I'd like to see.
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Re: 2019 season - preseason

Postby Ruckus28 on Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:01 pm

Depends on what you define as “evidence”, YT. The evidence I think is important is our SoCon championships and playoff appearance performances (and winning record). If you choose to minimize or ignore those, I really don’t know what to say other than I think you are very misguided.
Like Mudrat said, time will tell. I don’t believe we have the talent to run a completely power I back set but use of the TE and FB sounds good to me. Better than 4 wides and spread. Still would like the threat of basic TO to keep defenses honest.
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Re: 2019 season - preseason

Postby Retiredterrier on Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:27 pm

I was unaware of this new rule about red shirt freshmen but it should benefit all teams. http://www.goupstate.com/news/20180817/ ... -up-o-line
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Re: 2019 season - preseason

Postby Loyal-T-dog on Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:57 pm

Ok gents, let's all take a breath and be cordial.

For the last 3+ decades I have watched our Terriers move from a true wishbone team to a mutiple set option team to a shotgun (few times under center) somewhat option team. There have been many wins because of our running game and many losses because of a lack of efficient passing game. In the past few years we (our large group of loyal Terriers) have been wanting more option (and a few passes) but Wofford has certainly been as much a predetermined dive or trap offense as option offense.

Not using simple completion routes, quick strikes out of option motion and inconsistent TE usage has hurt our opportunities when our running game has put us in the position for the win or defenses have loaded up to stop our running game. We do not have to be pass happy or move away from a Wofford power ground game, but rather be creative and intelligent enough throwing the ball to dictate the offensive pace and keep the defense guessing.

I am looking forward to Conklin and his staff to continue being a strong defense (likely more aggressive seeing what he did at Pitt) and a strong run offense with a bit more passing to make the offense more efficient and more difficult to defend. I believe the real key is not to balance our offense with much more passing but rather implement quality passing to keep defenses imbalanced.

I can only speak for ME but yes we have underperformed in games that a few passes would have played a critical role and eased the defensive pressure.
I certainly love the option and hope Wofford never moves away from it but anyone that has watched Wofford football knows that just a little bit of efficient and successful passing will make us a better RUNNING team.

Chill fellas and let's look forward to winning!
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Re: 2019 season - preseason

Postby lawdog on Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:28 pm

+1. Running the option well, especially against a team that is not quite sure what to expect next, is a beautiful thing.

QB's. http://www.goupstate.com/news/20180819/ ... rd-offense
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Re: 2019 season - preseason

Postby youngterrier on Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:52 am

Loyal-T-dog wrote:Ok gents, let's all take a breath and be cordial.

For the last 3+ decades I have watched our Terriers move from a true wishbone team to a mutiple set option team to a shotgun (few times under center) somewhat option team. There have been many wins because of our running game and many losses because of a lack of efficient passing game. In the past few years we (our large group of loyal Terriers) have been wanting more option (and a few passes) but Wofford has certainly been as much a predetermined dive or trap offense as option offense.

Not using simple completion routes, quick strikes out of option motion and inconsistent TE usage has hurt our opportunities when our running game has put us in the position for the win or defenses have loaded up to stop our running game. We do not have to be pass happy or move away from a Wofford power ground game, but rather be creative and intelligent enough throwing the ball to dictate the offensive pace and keep the defense guessing.

I am looking forward to Conklin and his staff to continue being a strong defense (likely more aggressive seeing what he did at Pitt) and a strong run offense with a bit more passing to make the offense more efficient and more difficult to defend. I believe the real key is not to balance our offense with much more passing but rather implement quality passing to keep defenses imbalanced.

I can only speak for ME but yes we have underperformed in games that a few passes would have played a critical role and eased the defensive pressure.
I certainly love the option and hope Wofford never moves away from it but anyone that has watched Wofford football knows that just a little bit of efficient and successful passing will make us a better RUNNING team.

Chill fellas and let's look forward to winning!
GO TERRIERS!!!!!


This is basically my position
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Re: 2019 season - preseason

Postby lawdog on Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:39 pm

As always, we will need to win the turnover battle. Will be interesting to see if we develop more techniques for taking the ball away; seems we have been getting better there.
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Re: 2019 season - preseason

Postby lawdog on Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:00 pm

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