BEAT EL CID

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Re: BEAT EL CID

Postby WocoSix on Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:25 pm

This game really hurts. We were once again out coached. Not in Schemes or preparations, but in game and personnel management. We have Lorenzo Long, Chase Nelson, Andre Stoddard, and Lennox Mcafee that I would run between tackles. Why are we running our SMALLEST back in crunch time between the tackles? If I have Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant on my team with 10 seconds left I am not drawing up a play for Fred Hoiberg! As a coach I win or lose with Lorenzo Long touching the ball.

On offense, where was Cole Cleary, Jason Hill, or R.J Taylor? There were quite a few time that Citadel just pinned there ears back and threw the kitchen sink. A simple slant or fly would have opened things up. And although our 3rd String QB made 2 horrible decisions on the pitches, I blame the coaches for even letting that option pitch play leave the press box especially after what resulted on the first turnover. Clock management was also questionable. With 5 minutes or so left to play with a 7 pt lead why were we snapping the ball with 15 seconds on the play clock? Run your low risk plays and punt, and we would have given Citadel the ball with less than 2 minutes on the clock with a lead. The way the defense was playing I don't think the citadel would have scored with a 2 minute offense.

Our Defense was lights out. But there were some questionable moves there as well. JoJo Tillery was the leading tackler before the Citadel game. I could see alternating Riveria and Tillery, but to gameplan without the teams leading tackler was questionable. Lawdog I said it at the beginning of the season that I thought Armfield and Lemon were the better options at cornerback. Of course Armfield left, but Lemon finally got a chance to show why he was highly recruited coming out of high school. Personally if I were a DC I would have a dime package that would incorporate Watson, Lemon, Gbesee, Tillery, Green, and Rivera. Especially against teams like Samford, UTC, Furman, ETSU, and Mercer. Lincoln Stewart did a nice job as well.

In my book we outplayed and out talented 2 of the 3 teams we have loss to. And if Evan Jacks is on the field then the Ole Miss game would probably been close. We still can make the playoffs but we are going to have to utilize all the talent we have and ride the back of Lorenzo to the playoffs!
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Re: BEAT EL CID

Postby mudrat43 on Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:55 pm

After a long haul back to the heart of the swamp, let me get my mind right and say this....those fickle football gods (and El Cid) flat stole the game away from the Terriers. The SHD's played like animals in that game. Yeah, they made the damning mistakes that took the win away, but gosh, sometimes ya just can't beat fate. Lots of, "if we had done this or done that", the result would have been different......all I can say is they still did themselves proud.....dang it! And in the end (really) the Terriers were a FG better than El Cid!!!
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Re: BEAT EL CID

Postby youngterrier on Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:06 pm

For the record, I am 1000% in favor of playing Joe Newman as sparing as possible this season.

The probability of any player getting hurt at any given time is about the same, regardless who is playing. Logically, the more players you have playing, the more likely you'll have more injuries. Similarly, if a single player plays a position more than his back up, obviously he has a higher chance of getting hurt.

In the case, we don't need to stretch injuries with QBs. Play Goodson as much as you can. Does he have a high probability of getting hurt? yes. But if we play both Newman and Goodson, there's an increased likelihood of being another one down.
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Re: BEAT EL CID

Postby walliver on Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:09 pm

youngterrier wrote:...
We're a good team too. We're just not a great team (yet). Goodson is a good QB and next year when Butler and he are back, I think we're gonna have a good two QB system going. One of the things we also forget is how young we are. Gay, Wharby, Miller, Long and Colvin we'll miss next year, but we continue to be a very deep and very young team (especially on defense!)

...


I'm not sure our QB position is that settled. Newman played one down yesterday and gained 19 yards. The play itself didn't look smooth and he may not have executed it properly. But, he demonstrated more raw talent running the ball than than our other 3 have done. Do we red-shirt him as a sophomore and hope Butler and Goodson stay healthy? If he plays, do we have another "we have 3 guys who can run our system" fiasco? Will Butler recover 100%? I don't think Weimer ever really recovered from his knee injury. If Newman shines during spring practice, will Butler or Goodson choose to graduate?

Normally I would be happy to have 3 good QB's to choose from, but after last year, I don't trust our coaching staff.
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Re: BEAT EL CID

Postby youngterrier on Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:18 pm

To be clear, I though the playcall on the "pitch 6" was a bad one. No need to run it to the sideline. 6 minutes left, up 7, when they only one decent offensive drive the whole game (and for some reason the dive was working on third downs), run the ball up the middle, take the low risk play.

As I already said though, Goodson should have just eaten it and taken the loss of yardage, not pitched it.

As for the first pitch failure, either we did an illegal shift or the coaches tried to get too cute. Lorenzo was moving/in motion before the snap of the ball. Again, dumb play call, in my opinion. I'd like to see a study about how and when option teams fumble, just because I'm confident that that's the sort of situation that happens. In a situation when your defense has played well all day and your punter is lights out and it's near the end of the 3rd quarter, you don't have to be cute. We were up 6, were moving the ball well all day and that reality made a 6 point game feel like a 9 point game just because the clock was on our side.

But hey, that's just my opinion. Had it worked, we would not be talking about. Games are played on the field, not always in the box. It can't be reiterated how just unlucky we were. It's not even funny.
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Re: BEAT EL CID

Postby youngterrier on Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:22 pm

walliver wrote:
youngterrier wrote:...
We're a good team too. We're just not a great team (yet). Goodson is a good QB and next year when Butler and he are back, I think we're gonna have a good two QB system going. One of the things we also forget is how young we are. Gay, Wharby, Miller, Long and Colvin we'll miss next year, but we continue to be a very deep and very young team (especially on defense!)

...


I'm not sure our QB position is that settled. Newman played one down yesterday and gained 19 yards. The play itself didn't look smooth and he may not have executed it properly. But, he demonstrated more raw talent running the ball than than our other 3 have done. Do we red-shirt him as a sophomore and hope Butler and Goodson stay healthy? If he plays, do we have another "we have 3 guys who can run our system" fiasco? Will Butler recover 100%? I don't think Weimer ever really recovered from his knee injury. If Newman shines during spring practice, will Butler or Goodson choose to graduate?

Normally I would be happy to have 3 good QB's to choose from, but after last year, I don't trust our coaching staff.


Goodson has played very well this season. In my opinion, he deserves the start opening day next season. We haven't had a guy to call "the guy" since Mitch Allen graduated 5 years ago, but now I think it's Goodson. Newman may be good, but we can't keep rushing QBs into development when they aren't ready or continuously shifting them.

I'm convinced that the problem with our QB situation in the past 2 years (not this year) wasn't that there wasn't a lot of talent there but there wasn't the opportunity to create game-time chemistry. Now, we know that Butler can run our offense. We know that Goodson can. I'm sure Newman will in the future, but I'd rather him be the designated survivor. He'll be the starter in 2018 unless something crazy happens
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Re: BEAT EL CID

Postby WocoSix on Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:26 pm

I think our best QB is on the defensive side of the ball. I've heard some GA people talking about Watson as a playmaker back in his HS days. Granted there is a big difference between college and HS but Watson is showing he has the athleticism to play in the SoCon. We need explosive play from the QB position and the threat of our QB taking it to the house. In our current situation we do not have that. How about a wild cat formation with Watson or a few designed plays for Joe Newman. Something to break the monotony. Better yet show some imagination or something as simple as lining up in a full house set with Long as the back. Lead blockers of Miles Brown and Mikel Horton running on Anton Wahrby's side. I dare any team in the SoCon to stop that combination 3 times with us having a first and goal from the 8!
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Re: BEAT EL CID

Postby dungeonjoe on Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:14 pm

Joe Newman: Designated Survivor
"There are things that you value and things that you will fight for. That is what today's all about. We fight for that short-haired dog and that name across your chest." Mike Ayers
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Re: BEAT EL CID

Postby youngterrier on Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:15 pm

WocoSix wrote:I think our best QB is on the defensive side of the ball. I've heard some GA people talking about Watson as a playmaker back in his HS days. Granted there is a big difference between college and HS but Watson is showing he has the athleticism to play in the SoCon. We need explosive play from the QB position and the threat of our QB taking it to the house. In our current situation we do not have that. How about a wild cat formation with Watson or a few designed plays for Joe Newman. Something to break the monotony. Better yet show some imagination or something as simple as lining up in a full house set with Long as the back. Lead blockers of Miles Brown and Mikel Horton running on Anton Wahrby's side. I dare any team in the SoCon to stop that combination 3 times with us having a first and goal from the 8!


Obviously you haven't been watching Goodson running the ball in the last month...
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Re: BEAT EL CID

Postby WocoSix on Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:36 pm

Yt yes I have... and except for the few long runs you are referring to Goodson is not a run threat. Goodson is not as good a runner as Evan Jacks and not a better passer than Brad Butler. My opinion is he is serviceable and a game manager. Out of the 3 QB system we implemented personally I thought he would have been least likely to make turnovers. The Citadel and Samford game were indications of the staff putting him in a predicament where he had to make a play. I don't think that was playing to his strength.
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Re: BEAT EL CID

Postby youngterrier on Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:22 pm

I mean you can think that but saying "he's not a good runner outside of those big runs yesterday" is kind of like saying "he's a terrible passer even though he was 18-20 for 300 yards" like cool you can say that, but all you've got is an eye test which is inherently subjective, but numerically it isn't the case. Even as bad of a day Goodson had yesterday, he has led the offense better than any other QB since Mitch Allen left (and to be fair, Butler may do the same when he gets back, but right now he's played more snaps).

As of now our offense has averaged about 25 points of game since Butler went down with an injury, which makes Goodson better than Butler (though admittedly the sample size is smaller). Compound that with with the fact that in this four game stretch, Goodson wasn't the starter against ETSU and played two of the best defenses we'll play this year (sans Chatt and Ole Miss), and that's a pretty solid performance. Expect our offensive performance to go up in the next few weeks.

Meanwhile you kind of undermine your own point by asserting this hypothesis of a cornerback being our best QB right now...and that's just silly. And mind you, I don't care that people have their own pet theories, but I go back to what I said in weeks prior, these sort of comments don't really serve anything but to be negative. It doesn't give credit where credit is due when we have hard working (once again emphasizing underpaid) coaches and players (who don't get much attention on campus to be honest).

I feel like a lot of people on here assume that our offense must be terrible or our players aren't good because we don't pass an eye test every play, when that just isn't how our offense (or any offense for that matter) works.
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Re: BEAT EL CID

Postby boulder3m on Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:02 pm

This is some of the best conversation I have heard on this board. Everyone is making coherent comments without stomping on each other! Goodson was put into a tough situation and has done well, but I agree that he is being asked to do things that probably aren't what he does best. The Citadel apparently was not expecting him to run the ball, and he busted a couple of good runs. If I were coaching I probably wouldn't have him running it much either, given the lack of depth now at QB. During much of the game I was screaming at the screen wondering why we kept pounding the middle for no gain; and then late in the game I was screaming the opposite! Our offensive line flat wore down the Citadel D line. They have great LB's, but they were getting tired as well. On the other hand, our D line was getting stronger and stronger against them. There are a lot of "what ifs" after a loss like this against a team we beat virtually every way but the score. We have a very good team, but so far they haven't proved it on the scoreboard. We have beaten arguably the two worst teams in the league. It is time to go beat a few more and prove we are the team we think we are. Personally I think we can pound any team left on the schedule if we coach and play smart football.
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Re: BEAT EL CID

Postby wjtesquire on Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:40 pm

I was screaming at the screen wondering why we kept pounding the middle for no gain; and then late in the game I was screaming the opposite!


Exactly what I was doing :x
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