10/03/15 @ Mercer

Southern Conference Champions - 2003, 2007, 2010, 2012, 2017
FCS Playoffs - 2003, 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2016
FCS Playoff Semifinalists - 2003
FCS Playoff Quarterfinalists- 2016, 2017

Moderators: BestOfBreed, dungeonjoe

Re: 10/03/15 @ Mercer

Postby boulder3m on Sun Oct 04, 2015 8:21 pm

I just went back and watched the video of the game from ESPN3. Once again it makes me so happy to NOT have to listen to the announcers who are assigned to the games. One was OK, but the other is a project. Man, we had our chances to really win the game big, and had kicks blocked; strange penalties (clipping); fumbles, etc. Looking at it again, though, the stop by the defense at the end of regulation that caused them to kick to tie was the game decider. No doubt we all knew that if they scored a TD it was over, and the defense played great.
Where do we look for IWF? It should be out.
boulder3m
True Terrier Fan
 
Posts: 2655
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:11 pm
Location: 150 mi away from where my heart lies

Re: 10/03/15 @ Mercer

Postby lawdog on Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:06 pm

http://woffordterriers.com/news/2015/10 ... 51333.aspx Well deserved. He is having a great senior year, and showing some splendid leadership for the D. Has always seemed like a particularly nice kid too (our team has a lot of those).
lawdog
True Terrier Fan
 
Posts: 6248
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:22 pm
Location: NC

Re: 10/03/15 @ Mercer

Postby T-Dog 4 on Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:07 pm

I agree with a lot of what has already been said. Very little imagination or risk tolerance on offense. We looked decent at times and abysmal just as often. IMHO, gone are the days when we can expect a minimum of 3 yards a play and grinding out first downs. We have too many plays that go for no gain or a loss, largely due to the fact that we run 1 play over and over and over. I think our low 3rd down conversion rate is directly proportional to the number of times we call the FB dive. We have recruited guys that can throw and catch and our talent level is way better in those facets than when we were winning Conference championships ...yet we continue to "keep 'emhonest" with a steady diet of 34 belly give-ups.

I also continue to detest our defensive philosophy of playing our corners 15 yards off the wide outs and rushing 3 guys. Furples, Chatty et al will destroy us (again) if that doesn't change. Blocked kicks and freaky plays aside, we were very lucky to hang on and win his game...a game we should have put away long before OT.

We also seem to be racking up way more penalties than we should. Maybe the refs are more attuned to the chop block issue than before, but MA coached teams of the past never got penalized this much. We probably average 3-4 pass intereference penalties a game...not to mention the delays of game because we can't get the plays called in time.

If these shortcomings are so obvious to all of us as fans, then I have to believe they are even more obvious to our coaching staff...yet nothing changes? The interesting question to me is where is MA on WL's single-mindedness offensively? Where is he on our pitiful pass coverage schemes? In reading MA's post game comments from this game, he said we just didn't adjust...so the question remains, will we ever? Shouldn't we know by now what adjustments we are likely going to have to make? Whose responsibility is it to make sure our coaches are adjusting?

Not casting blame, just wondering out loud whether we really want to address these shortcomings or are our coaches just happy to maintain the status quo?....it has been said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. :dunno: :dunno: :dunno:
To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society.
-Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
T-Dog 4
True Terrier Fan
 
Posts: 1040
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:21 pm
Location: The Far Right

Re: 10/03/15 @ Mercer

Postby Tnterrier2 on Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:49 pm

I am not in anyway trying to take anything away from a great game day experience down at Mercer on Saturday. I thought everything was first class, and well done. Parking was good, and getting in and out was painless. They have a very passionate but friendly fan base. Our entire stay was great. Macon is a nice place and they are certainly making the Mercer campus beautiful, and putting a lot of money into the place. They will be a force to be reckoned with over the years.

But...

The announced attendance for the game was 10,489. I don't see how that's possible. The stadium only holds 10,000 (I thought anyway, someone correct me if I'm wrong) and the larger side away from the press box opposite of where our section was, was not half full. The side we were on was full to capacity, and the small hill at the end had a lot of people too. But the other side which I would think would hold at least 5k was half full. I was not surprised the stadium wasn't full considering the rain, and some of the other games going on, including Georgia/Alabama, but I just don't see where they got that number from. Numbers seemed a little inflated, but hey maybe my eye test wasn't accurate, or the stadium capacity is higher than I thought.
Tnterrier2
True Terrier Fan
 
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:07 pm

Re: 10/03/15 @ Mercer

Postby youngterrier on Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:11 pm

One observation I had that I think is a legitimate criticism is that, at two points last saturday we either called a dive play or had the dive play result from an option three times in a row. I'm pretty sure on one drive in which we had a turnover on downs we ran the dive 4 times in a row. I want to say one of those drives was the second one for EJ at QB and we didn't move the ball well then.

When we talk about predictable play-calling or at the very least uncreative play-calling, this is what we're talking about. The dive play is the go-to for every option offense, and when we had EB we could have those sort of playcalling and be successful. Lorenzo Long is a great running back, definitely faster than EB, and easily as physical as any RB we've ever had at Wofford. With that said, he nor any other RB we've had has the EB characteristic of falling forward for 2 extra yards after contact.

The dive works a lot, and it did Saturday, and it even worked on consecutive plays, but when you do it for 3 or 4 consecutive plays, each of which doesn't net more than 2 yards, that's just bad play-calling. I understand part of the appeal and success of the option is the guessing game of who has the ball, but we're so predictable at times that we take that guessing game out of it.
Study hard, Work Hard, Party Hard, Go Terriers!
User avatar
youngterrier
True Terrier Fan
 
Posts: 3316
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:25 am

Re: 10/03/15 @ Mercer

Postby T-Dog 4 on Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:19 pm

+1. Exactly. Same is true on the other side of the ball. Every opponent that can throw the ball at all knows they can dink us to death at will and that we will never adjust or do anything any differently.
To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society.
-Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
T-Dog 4
True Terrier Fan
 
Posts: 1040
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:21 pm
Location: The Far Right

Re: 10/03/15 @ Mercer

Postby Ruckus on Mon Oct 05, 2015 4:21 pm

Playing devils advocate:
How do we know the "dive play" was called in the huddle and not a QB read (maybe even a mis-read) on the option? If the QB has three options (or maybe just 2 on zone read/gun stuff), that isn't a play calling issue as much as an execution issue. The option is what we do; it's who we are. No, every read is not going to be perfect every time. Sometimes we run it into a stunt. Sometimes they just play us well, beat a block, or defend it well for whatever reason. That doesn't mean it is "bad play calling". Unimaginative? Maybe. Predictable? Maybe. But not "bad" because it's our offense. Just like Furman runs Power formations, Cid runs option, Sammy and Western run spread. Plays don't work every time, but usually offenses (ours included) are designed that if the defense takes something away, they have to take a risk that something else is open or available.
When we rush for 400 yards and score 27 points in regulation (and should have had more had it not been for 3 blocked kicks), I am not sure we have much room to complain other than maybe a few plays here and there and a general trend not to throw the ball more.
As for defense, I understand the frustration and have sat in the stands and heard for years now people (myself included on occasion) complain about our corner cushions and "soft" zone coverage. I also recall hearing the groans and expletives when we go man on the corner or stunt resulting in man coverage on the corner and watch helplessly as passes are completed over our heads for TDS or big gains. Elon in '09 comes to mind as does NGU last year. We have tried for years to play more man coverage and we can't do it (at least not regularly/often as some of us would like). So pick your poison: giving a 8 yard cushion allowing a short completion or press man and the distinct opportunity for a big play? In years past, it used to not be a big deal: most offenses would designed to run the ball. But as these modern offenses evolved into a highly skilled game of pitch and catch with supremely talented QBs who can flat sling it around to big fast strong WRS, the days of only press man are largely gone, especially for us with undersized and/or average speed corners. Armfield is one of the most physically gifted corners we have had but he still is open to being exploited by fast and/or big WRS with a QB who knows where and how to deliver a ball on time in a small window. Watch the pros on Sundays. Very few corners can play on an island; and the few that can are paid handsomely and are a precious commodity. CB is one of the toughest positions to play physically, I think; especially now that offenses are designed to create and exploit mismatches on the perimeter.
What we try to do to offset this is to disguise our D looks and confuse QB reads of where the help is coming from. Sometimes our corners have the underneath flat responsibility and sometimes they are over the top/deep help in their half or third of the field. We have a VERY VERY difficult system to learn (I have heard our DLS have to make 3 separate reads once their hands go down based on the LB calls). This should surprise no one as we are Wofford: we play heady/complex schemes and recruit athletes who can physically and mentally execute them, offensively and defensively (and basketball is no different really). I don't claim to know all the aspects or intricasies of either, maybe some of us on here who played in these schemes in recent years can enlighten us further as my experience is too remote (I am too old) and with different schemes (although similar in some respects). But playing all out/high risk sets is not our repertoire.
I agree giving up 277 yards passing looks bad in the box score, is not fun to watch, and lends itself to criticism. But I would ask: where was the pass rush? Did we miss too many tackles? Did we blow coverages/not execute (I think we blew one on the OT TD play)? It seems we rendered them pretty one dimensional (took away the run) which is always our first goal. So that is a positive.
Football has changed. It is a game played in space and on matchups now. Offenses are complex. Passing and receiving/route running skills are extremely good. It truly is a challenge to defend this schemes. Some college teams are scoring 60 or 70 points every week. There is a reason for that. Even the best most skilled defenses struggle to defend them, much less us.
Ruckus
True Terrier Fan
 
Posts: 6271
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:12 pm
Location: God's Country

Re: 10/03/15 @ Mercer

Postby youngterrier on Mon Oct 05, 2015 4:38 pm

I think Mercer runs a very efficient offense in that they probably ran about 80 plays, half of them were passes, and I would imagine a majority of them were play action roll-out. of which their QB got rid of the ball pretty fast. There's a reason they've only had one sack all year. I don't care as much about the defense as much as I do the offense because the defense can only do as well as the offense helps them out. The last few years our defense has been solid and our offense so-so. Our defense has made a lot of plays, and they did yesterday too (even though they got beat on a few as well), and from what I generally observe our defense is the peak "bend but don't break" variety. We make plays when we need to, but if we're depending on defense making plays, it's usually because the offense is not where it needs to be. We're not going to be a defense that gets three and outs every time, but we are the defense that I want in the redzone when the game's on the line. We've probably made the most game-winning or game-deciding plays in those situations.

Wofford is always going to be dependent on our offense being successful for team success. I remember our secondary in 2008 was often the most criticized part of the team, but really I would trade what we have now for the sort of team we had then--lots of points offensively and an average defense that got stops. That's similar to what the commentary on what Baylor's defense seems to be: they don't have to be a top 10 defense, they just need to get a few stops and their offense will compensate.

That's really the model I've observed Wofford to be like, but it's hard to tell if Defenses are just used to the schemes we use, just seen in a similar set, or if we're generally predictable as opposed to 7 or so years ago. I'm more critical of the offensive performance than the defensive, because unfortunately our problems on offense are becoming more and more defined as the season progresses, most namely we don't start the right QB.
Study hard, Work Hard, Party Hard, Go Terriers!
User avatar
youngterrier
True Terrier Fan
 
Posts: 3316
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:25 am

Re: 10/03/15 @ Mercer

Postby WocoSix on Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:53 pm

Start off by saying Mercer has one of the best FCS game day environments. Wish Wofford would include some of these in our game days. We have a PEP band why not have them and a Hype guy with a microphone during the games? Short video board celebrations on TD's, 4th down, goal line stand, etc. (Fireworks would be little extra). Sponsor items were located all over the field, so don't know how WOFF fans would embrace that theme.

Now as the game goes, I think this weekends game was a mismatch and the score should have been a 3 TD lead at the minimum. The whole QB situation is beyond me but who am I to 2nd guess a legendary coach. But for me there is Evans and the other 2 are a toss up for back up. I even like seeing Weimer(6'5 220) at WR...if he has hands and can block he would be a good red zone threat. The OL is the difference maker for us and they have been doing a great job in the trenches. RB's are solid and have stepped up to answer the bell.

Our defense seems to be low risk / low reward and bend but don't break mentality. DL is getting pressure without the help of a blitz which is a good sign, but at times seem to give up or get blocked out of gap assignments. LBz are solid but not lights out like they could be. 27 TFL's and 11 sacks in 5 games is not bad, but I would expect a 3-4 multiple, would average at least 7 TFL's and 3-4 Sacks per game average. As for the secondary, I don't think we can line up man to man like a VT or Bama all game. I do think we have the skillsets to mix up man under, man free, cover zero, and match zone techniques from 8 yds and bump and run. Giving WR's 8-10 yard cushions and playing traditional coverages is asking for a QB to throw for over 300+ yards. If our DB's cant cover/Jam for a 4 second count, then we have recruited the wrong guys (you don't have to have guys running 4.4 to play man coverage). Also for the life of me shouldn't we have a Nickle/Dime personnel? It was 3th and long multiple times and Woff had 4 LB's on the field, and Mercer converted with a Slot/LB matchup.
User avatar
WocoSix
True Terrier Fan
 
Posts: 167
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:56 pm

Re: 10/03/15 @ Mercer

Postby BearDownMU on Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:33 pm

Re: attendance from our end. 10,200 is seated capacity. There are about 2500 standing room tickets (end zones and the berm) for each game in addition to the seated number. Not to say that the number isn't inflated, because the side opposite the press box is 90% season tickets and they may count sold rather than scanned. Not sure. But the biggest attendance we've recorded is darn near 13,000.
Some days you eat the Bear, some days the Bear eats you!
User avatar
BearDownMU
Junior Terrier
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2015 4:00 pm

Re: 10/03/15 @ Mercer

Postby BearDownMU on Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:44 pm

Just a final outside perspective. I have great respect for your team. They play really hard, and that's what you want.

However, I've seen a few people talk about how it should have been a 3 touchdown win, or a blowout or whatever. Not quite sure how that's the take away. We had 464 yards of total offense. Hard to reconcile expecting a blowout when nearly giving up 500 yards of offense and 31 first downs. Also, there were 2 Wofford turnovers to our 1. Not like that was a huge disparity.

Not having Lakes in the backfield made it really tough on us running. We ran Mitchell to 110 yards. Or backup to Mitchell, since Lakes was out with the punctured lung, was Peyton Usher, who broke his hand at Tennessee Tech and was playing with a club cast. I know everyone has injuries, just looking at it from our perspective.

And 40ish% of the rushing yards we allowed came on 3 plays. Two 60 yard and one 54 yard run. Again, supremely well blocked and executed and not at all taking away from for the effort, but that's a lot of bomb-type plays to allow.

Anyway, like I say, I've got nothing but respect and congratulate you on the win, but I was live and in color and the game I watched didn't at all look like it should have been a blow out. Kinda feels a little dismissive of the effort from our kids on our side of the ball.
Some days you eat the Bear, some days the Bear eats you!
User avatar
BearDownMU
Junior Terrier
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2015 4:00 pm

Re: 10/03/15 @ Mercer

Postby 19TERRIER19 on Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:50 am

Well to be fair. I think that door swings both ways. Saw many Bear posts claimin "we should have won". Although you were down 10 points most of the second half. Add on the freak blocked kicks and extra points and you should be able to surmise where the "should have been more" theory. Now if you simply look at stats and didn't watch the game you'd feel that mercer "should have won". But is that what you gathered from the game??? That mercer "should have won"??

Again, no offense to mercer who played hard as can be, and totally deserved to win based on fight and effort. Mercer is missing players, and we are missing PLENTY OF ALL CONFERENCE PERFORMERS are own selves.......but in no way shape or form did I think that mercer "SHOULD HAVE WON". They played well enough to win that's for sure, but the game was Wofford's for the most part. IMO. UP 10 with 4 minutes to go doesn't exactly play to the should have won mantra. But I digress. I thought it was a great game filled with all types of drama
And big plays on both sides.
Last edited by 19TERRIER19 on Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
19TERRIER19
True Terrier Fan
 
Posts: 1091
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:10 pm

Re: 10/03/15 @ Mercer

Postby BearDownMU on Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:12 am

I didn't say "should have won". I was talking about the idea that this "should have been a blow out".

And how come blocked kicks are freak things? That's automatically a kid on the kicking team screwing up and not the kid on the D side making a great play? We missed a 27 yard field goal and an extra point in OT. Not blocked. Missed. But I wasn't on here talking about us giving the game away.

And watching the game and looking at the stats I felt like it was a close one that either team *could* have won. Just don't agree with the idea that we *should* have been run out of the building.
Some days you eat the Bear, some days the Bear eats you!
User avatar
BearDownMU
Junior Terrier
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2015 4:00 pm

Re: 10/03/15 @ Mercer

Postby 19TERRIER19 on Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:19 am

Because multiple blocked kicks is a freak thing. At least for us it is. I never say what should have happened. Because that's theoretical and dismissive of the 2 teams that played very hard. The facts are the game came down to a play and one team blinked and the other didn't in that very moment. The same way the game was close in score due to blocked kicks is the same way it was won, by a blocked missed extra point
User avatar
19TERRIER19
True Terrier Fan
 
Posts: 1091
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:10 pm

Re: 10/03/15 @ Mercer

Postby WocoSix on Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:38 am

I am with the 3 TD theory. The phantom roughing the passer and pass interference on 3rd and longs resulted in 2 Mercer scoring drive. Long's run before half where he tries to juke instead of racing to pylon to end half. Not to mention like some one said earlier the 4 points on special teams where Martin is usually automatic. The fumble that helped put Mercer in position for OT was more a lack of Woff execution
User avatar
WocoSix
True Terrier Fan
 
Posts: 167
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:56 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Football

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests