HUGE NEWS!!!!

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Re: HUGE NEWS!!!!

Postby 19TERRIER19 on Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:39 pm

That's a good Post Law. You bring up some good thoughts right there.
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Re: HUGE NEWS!!!!

Postby Eyes of Old Main on Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:00 pm

I don't like the permissive nature of the SoCon policy. As a conference, all members should either be "in" or "out" when it comes to this. If the majority want it, then the rest have to either figure it out or move on. That might negatively effect Wofford, but I don't see any other fair way. Furthermore, I think it is ludicrous that schools have latitude in who gets paid and how much. ROTC scholarships pay nice stipends, but they are the same for everyone. Granted, that's government money, but while I could be on board for this if it was the same for every athlete (male/female, revenue/non-revenue, value, etc.), I just don't see any way that it can be applied fairly unless the payments come from the NCAA (paid either by their deep pockets or acting as a clearinghouse) and not the schools themselves. Too much room for "fuzzy math" otherwise.

The Title IX questions is interesting if payments aren't kept the same for female athletes. I haven't heard, but I assume the announcement that Wofford will be adding women's lacrosse is in part to keep the Title IX numbers in check. If so, I am fine with that, but I'd rather then use Snyder Field and keep the extra markings (and likely Field Turf) out of Gibbs Stadium.

If this proves to be the dividing line that splits the college sports world, it will be interesting to see where things go. If we are forced to make a move, I believe there will be a number of our peers who fall on the same side as we do. Among the current SoCon members, the only one I'd say is a slam dunk to pay COA is Chattanooga. If that means we end up in a conference that doesn't pay COA with a like-minded combination of former SoCon and Big South schools, then I would be disappointed, but it wouldn't be the end of the world unless that cut us off from DI championships and the DI profit share.
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Re: HUGE NEWS!!!!

Postby 19TERRIER19 on Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:20 am

Very good post. And you bring up some good points. It is very interesting to see how this all plays out. And I too and of the all in or all out thought process. a definite change is coming, how or where it affects us is hard to say.
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Re: HUGE NEWS!!!!

Postby WoCo65 on Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:08 pm

I was not a fan of this when it first broke with Northwestern a couple years ago. Count me amongst those against paying student-athletes that get paid to play. You're literally getting a free education already and you want more? Sad day IMO. :(
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Re: HUGE NEWS!!!!

Postby WocoSix on Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:26 pm

I am a fan of the COA. The students on a Bonner, performance arts, or any other talent based scholarship have the same needs as a kid on athletic scholarship. Whether it be money to eat places other than on Campus or after hours, movie or concerts, gas for transportation, personal hygiene items, technologies for class, and etc. The student athlete is at a disadvantage because they can NOT be employed, do NOT have access to FASFA or additional scholarship money, and can not engage in any form of income (Entrepreneur opportunity) during their career at Wofford. But these student athletes have the same regiment and expectations of non athletes while giving up weekends, social life, all while generating revenue for the school.

If the budget is not able to do the max, they should be able to provide some sort of benefit to assist our athletes who give their bodies, blood, sweat, and tears to represent Wofford.
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Re: HUGE NEWS!!!!

Postby woffordgrad94 on Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:54 pm

lawdog wrote:Could this issue be addressed by the NCAA putting in trust for each athlete funds based on the value of all athletes to media and ticket revenues that all now come solely to schools and the NCAA. Some of the big names at big schools would get more than lesser names at smaller programs, but every athlete would get something. Although that is not easy to apportion, that does not mean it cannot be done.

This also raises the question of the Davidson model for smaller private serious educational institutions like Wofford. As we know, Davidson football has no schollies, and is dramatically unsuccessful. However, their scholarship sports like basketball, tennis, and soccer compete very effectively. Davidson can fund each of these sports, including outside "expenses", with a fraction of what it costs to fund serious football. We also are at the point where our basketball, soccer, golf, and tennis programs can compete widely. Going the Davidson route might increasingly be a viable option. (But, we have many alums and fans who cannot conceive of sports at Wofford without football.)

I have often been very critical of Davidson's football program and have made fun of it in the past. But you can't laugh at what Davidson has done in other sports, especially basketball. I like football. It would be bad news to me if I heard that Wofford was going the Davidson route in football. But I also like basketball, baseball, soccer, and volleyball too. In fact basketball is my favorite sport. And I think I had rather sacrifice scholarship football to be successful at all other sports than to sacrifice competitiveness in every sport in order to keep scholarship football if I had to make that choice. We'll see what happens.
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Re: HUGE NEWS!!!!

Postby Ruckus on Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:30 pm

Does anyone really believe that Wofford actually makes a profit off of its athletic programs or athletes? If so, do yourself a favor and ask to see the 2015 athletic budget. It will be eye opening for you.
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Re: HUGE NEWS!!!!

Postby WocoSix on Wed Sep 23, 2015 10:24 pm

Turning a profit for athletics is not the point. Colleges can be in the red with their athletic programs because the benefits of having successful athletic programs out weigh the cost of running the programs in a deficit. Alumni need events to comeback to campus for. The students are looking for fun environments that have pride and school spirit. Wofford playing at a championship level in whatever sport helps attract the special student athlete and helps the City of Spartanburg. If FU, CIT, or any other SoCon team agrees to pay COA and we dont... all I can say is "Hello bottom of the barrel"

And to say we are adding women's lacrosse, speaks volumes to where we are truly at financially.
Last edited by WocoSix on Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: HUGE NEWS!!!!

Postby Eyes of Old Main on Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:01 am

College recruiting is big business whether its for athletes or just general students. Wofford, and everyone else, spends huge amounts of money each year to attract the best students. If this is required to attract the best athletes, then is it really different than any other program designed to attract students? Many of those programs are geared towards specific groups and this is no different.

Perhaps my view is affected by the fact that my 10th grade son received a letter from Wofford this week encouraging him to consider Wofford in part because of his legacy status. While I have no problem with this (aside from feeling old because y son is now getting admissions solicitation letters) and I am actually impressed how Wofford managed that data and put it to positive use but the point is that every school has to do whatever it can and if paying a COA is the new thing, then we have to ante up somehow or move to the back of the line. My concern still is the application of this so that the amount paid is the same between males and females and also revenue and non-revenue sports as I think it is inconsistent with the Wofford Way to do otherwise.
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Re: HUGE NEWS!!!!

Postby Ruckus on Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:11 am

Adding women's lacrosse speaks volumes of what Title IX truly requires and nothing more. If given a choice, we wouldn't be doing it I assure you. If you think different, ask yourself why lacrosse? Because we already have a field, players have heir own pads and stick, and all we will really need to supply is a ball, some goals and a van to travel on. I am not making this up. I have been told this point blank.
Sure, athletics adds to the overall experience at any college. Enhances intangibles that makes the school more attractive etc. but so do other programs such as fine arts, ROTC, fraternities/sororities/student life, strong academics, etc. the very same argument can be made by a host of departments and elements of Wofford College. Athletics is but one of those. But now we are going to only reward athletes (yet not even all of them mind you) financially by giving them stipends?
Come on.....
It may well happen but it will come at a cost. Something will have to be sacrificed to do it.
But Wofford is not teeming with cash and hiding a vast wealth of undisclosed money at the sacrifice of its athletes.
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Re: HUGE NEWS!!!!

Postby T-Dog 4 on Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:21 am

Of the institutions that signed the letter that Wofford signed (VMI, William & Mary, etc), it would be interesting to see whether the primary driver behind their decision was money or the desire to maintain the purity of amateur athletics? My guess is that $$$ was the primary concern. If that is the case, it would not surprise me at all to see another conference/alliance system emerge out of this potential schism. I can easily envision a scenario where the state supported schools and those with big endowments/cash on hand would in essence become a semi-pro league and the private schools/less endowed would be relegated to something just above a club level type competition. Quite frankly, some would argue that is where we are now with the power conferences vs. lower tiered programs.

I may be nostalgic, but I just don't like where this is headed. It has already ruined the Olympics. I much prefer the days of the US putting together a bunch of wide-eyed college kids eager to represent their country and to compete against the Soviet juggernaut vs. the modern day situation where high-maintenance, pampered pro athletes reluctantly agree to fit the Games into their schedules. :roll:
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Re: HUGE NEWS!!!!

Postby WocoSix on Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:28 am

I am not trying to imply that Wofford is a cash cow and can afford to take on this endeavor. But what I am saying is if you want the top student-athletes we are going to have to pony up.
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Re: HUGE NEWS!!!!

Postby lawdog on Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:55 am

WocoSix wrote: Alumni need events to comeback to campus for. The students are looking for fun environments that have pride and school spirit. Wofford playing at a championship level in whatever sport helps attract the special student athlete and helps the City of Spartanburg.


No doubt strong athletics are important to colleges and universities, and this has been truer for Wofford than most. And former athletes are among our most successful and supportive alumni. They tend to be competitive and successful after school, and a high percentage appreciate our school and its values, and show it. I hope this happens with former female athletes too.
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Re: HUGE NEWS!!!!

Postby mudrat43 on Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:14 pm

I think if you check the facts (ask the recruiting coordinator), you'll find it is indeed OK to work while attending Wofford (or any other school) on scholarship, so long as one does not earn more than the cost of a scholarship (per year, appox. 50k). One may also work during breaks and summers for 'walking around money". Is it difficult? Without question! However, scores of young men (and women) have done just that, and become very successful. If I was so fortunate to have a son (or daughter) to receive a "fully" paid scholarship (athletic or otherwise) to college, you can bet the outhouse I'd get a 2nd or 3rd job if necessary to assist them if needed. And would expect them to do the same. This COA thing is just another gimme scam. And don't even get me started on the notion that the bloated NCAA could administer such a program with fairness. Be thankful you have adversity, it builds character! Just my opinion. Now..........................

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Re: HUGE NEWS!!!!

Postby Art Vandalay on Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:14 pm

I heard on the radio news this afternoon that the NCAA won their case against paying athletics above the schlorship. Anyone else hear this? If true, great news for us.
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